The Olympic Legacy?

[BaldockBabe]

Ps Thanks Rich for a helpful response about what is happening.

[Neil H]

Don't bash or even make comment on something not in your region when you have absolutely no idea what is going on behind the scenes.
One very pxxxxed off LV parent.

Clearly you have not offered your support to the right person running the sessions as I know for sure they would accept any offer of support or advice.
Perhaps you need to spend more time on the ground at these sessions as the Eastern region rep? rather the one and only session you attended back in the deep of the winter in February or March Time! Long memories of a cold night under flood lights and Down Jackets! As car as I can remember you did not introduce yourself as the Eastern Rep to the coach in charge that night.

As far as witnessed at Grandtully you actually went out of your way not to speak or even communicate with the coach in charge of this program? Perhaps you need to question yourself to whether you are doing the right thing for the region?
So don't write garbage of you don't know what is happening at LV when you can't be axxxd to speak to the coach or attend the odd session. Regeneration of slalom competition in this area is a priority for GB Canoeing, I am not sure where your or the regions priorities are?

As a parent of a child in this program I am disgusted by the comments that are made on this forum when clearly the majority of you have never attended the sessions or have no idea of what exactly is happening on the ground at LV.

If you want to make comment, come and experience it first hand rather than write absolute garbage on this forum when you have no clue of what is really happening other than reading press articles.

A frustrated 747boy

I absolutely must protest. I have had my differences with Michelle in the past but as I am sure she will testify, I have had the decency to resolve it with her face to face.

Your comments are unnecessary, arrogant and self-important. Michelle puts her bit in, has done for years, season in season out, when you have done the same maybe your pedantic note taking will carry more weight. (As far as witnessed at Grandtully???? ) What the heck is that statement about, it's not a game of chess!

Have a word with yourself, do the decent thing and post an unreserved apology to Michelle on here, in the clear light of day I am sure you have realised you have over-reacted are so far out of line you probably can't see the line

Oh an FYI, if you are a 'pxxxxed off parent' consider that there may actually be other people who are too; your opinion is just one and no more important than anyone else on here after all

[AndrewR]

I'd like to add my support to Neil's comments (and of course Michelle); this was an unwarranted personal attack on a public forum and it has no place here.

Don't bash or even make comment on something not in your region when you have absolutely no idea what is going on behind the scenes.

This forum is "The place to chat about UK Canoe Slalom" so It's entirely appropriate to see comment & discussion on any matters that affect the UK Canoe Slalom scene.

A broad range of views and disagreement is healthy.

Personal attacks are a completely different matter.

[Canadian Paddler]

Agree with the support for Michelle's effort and commitment. She was at it again this weekend, setting up the timing, running the start, helping a paddler with a damaged ankle, taking things down at the end - so that she was one of the last to leave the Abbey rapids site. AND she had the temerity not to introduce herself to everyone as Eastern Region rep.

DECARATION OF INTEREST I class myself as a friend of Michelle, so am biased

Damn, this is making me agree with John Sturgess in public for the third time in three days, how will I live with myself?

• 747boy If you are going to post controversial things have the decency to be able to be identified so that others can at identify themselves to you and agree / discuss why they disagree.
  
  An informative comment (like that posted by Rich) would have educated, informed, stopped speculation and maybe got encouragement. Thanks Mr H, a good, informative and valuable contribution.

For the avoidance of confusion, Canadian Paddler is Colin Woodgate (address and phone number in the year book, and can be found at Interclubs, Tees, HPP, Tail, British Open, ACM, Proteus Winter slaloms, . .). CP is an alter ego so that no one thinks anything I post has anything to do with official Secretary business (anyone remember 'Mr Secretary Man' from many years ago - guilty, me as a medium for any official replies, and to keep answers separate)

[Dee]

Another voice in support of Michelle here.

I think this is the first time I have seen such a vitriolic personal attack on these boards and can think of no justification whatsoever! Lesser forums have banned users for such unwarranted attacks.

747boy - man up and apologise!

... posting on a chat page they probably don't even read!

Communication in slalom is not always great, for the majority it largely seems to rely on heresay at events (dangerous) the ACM/year book (limited), www.canoeslalom.co.uk (excellent) and these boards which whilst being far from perfect do allow some interaction with the slalom community. Perhaps 'they' should therefore be encouraged to participate in these forums as usually the tone is friendly and reasonably positive. It is a good way to find out about the sport as a whole

[747boy]

Man up and apologise, what for?
I have clearly stated the facts as seen from MY PERSPECTIVE, and as Rich H put it a simple email to see how it is going and what is in the pipeline in the next few weeks and months would not go a miss.

I seem to remember not so long ago a paper by John S about how slalom is dying and especially in the south of England, as far as I can see there is some good work being done in the clubs hosting events etc but what are the regional committees really doing to help revive this great sport?

Lets look what GB Canoeing have done;
1-Set up, managed, coached, funded any shortfall in finances for club sessions on a twice weekly basis since Feb 2013
2-Established a local group of youngsters who the majority are now competing in Div 1 (5 paddlers) Feb 2013
3- Set up a TID programme which has 17 local athletes, Aug 2013. And yes you can talk garbage of what about the 1187 who were not selected bla bla (let's add several more pages of chat about this, yaaaaawn. They were given a rejection letters with a list of local clubs and the BCU website address should they wish to peruse canoeing activities, (GB canoeing promoting local clubs in the area!)
And lets not forget the majority of those 1200 kids had to do the testing or had the option to skive a lesson, so how many of the, really gave 2 hoots about canoeing?
4- Running a Div 3 / Open alongside the British Open 2013
5- Running 4 events in 2014 at LV / Dobbs Weir
6- Ran a L1 slalom coaching course (in a bid to encourage coaches to help out the twice weekly sessions and of course add new coaching blood to the sport)

There are know have 22 LOCAL paddlers hooked on slalom (doing their bit to buck the trend of John's paper for the South of England)

So as a parent who has a child involved in slalom at LV I can not fault the work being carried out by GB Canoeing.
Instead of continuing this bashing of each other lets work together and get this region back on the map as a force in canoe slalom and competing with the likes of the Midlands, Wales and Scotland

[AndrewG]

get this region back on the map as a force in canoe slalom and competing with the likes of the Midlands, Wales and Scotland

Here, here.
About time the Northern Region pulled its finger out.
As far as I can see there are only about 20 Prem Paddlers competing for Northern Region clubs and only 3 of these are J16's - where's the future for the Northern Region?

[Neil H]

Man up and apologise, what for?
I have clearly stated the facts as seen from MY PERSPECTIVE

Yeah, leaving aside what you think you know, I say again, maybe you should consider that your perspective is no more important than anyone else and ask around a bit for a bigger, more informed, enlightened perspective on how we got to this point. Somehow I didn't think you would have the integrity to apologise. Go on surprise me.

Final post on this subject this.

[BaldockBabe]

I have clearly stated the facts as seen from MY PERSPECTIVE,

"Fact


noun


1.
A piece of information about circumstances that exist or events that have occurred.

2.
A statement or assertion of verified information about something that is the case or has happened.

3.
An event known to have happened or something known to have existed. "How much of the story is fact and how much fiction is hard to tell"

4.
A concept whose truth can be proved."

Opinion


noun


1.
A personal belief or judgment that is not founded on proof or certainty. Synonyms: persuasion, sentiment, thought, view. "I am not of your persuasion" , "What are your thoughts on Haiti?""

[Being pedantic] What you have expressed is an opinon not a fact.

what are the regional committees really doing to help revive this great sport?

There are no regional committees for slalom. In England each region has one volunteer to represent the views of that region to the Canoe England Committee which in turrn has a representative on the BCU Slalom Committee.

If you (or any other person) wanted to set up a regional committee to promote slalom in their region I do not think that there would be any objection to it. Someone in that committee could hold the regional volunteer position and therefore represent the views of the region to the Canoe England Committee. However, this would have to be a properly elected committee and not a clique furthering their own agendas.

I understand that Yorkshire's clubs work together to run events - John may be able to confirm whether or not this is done on a regional committee basis.

[AndrewR]

Man up and apologise, what for?

For a personal attack on a very hard working and dedicated member of the slalom community

Instead of continuing this bashing of each other

Only one person on this thread doing the bashing - I've seen no attacks on you; just requests that you apologise for an unwarranted personal attack.

[Flyhigh3]

'As far as I can see there are only about 20 Prem Paddlers competing for Northern Region clubs and only 3 of these are J16's - where's the future for the Northern Region?'


Agree. In the NE we have a facility (some distance away for many) that is only open on a Wednesday evening and weekends, but so crowded on a wednesday with all types of boats that for slalom training purposes is ineffective. The top paddlers, if they can, move to Nottingham where facilties and support is better.
I have seen several recent threads on how 'bad' things are in the south....believe me, with a world class facility like LV, top coaches, TiD and a legacy that has to be seen to be working, it is worth thinking how lucky you are.

Perhaps this is a different thread

[BaldockBabe]

FlyHigh - I assume you mean Tees WWC? What at Tees Tigers doing and where do they train as they seem to be doing very well at getting juniors through the rankings right now (with Zac even making the GB team)? or is it that these paddlers have been picked up by the regional/ national development squads and have progressed that way*?

It would be nice to hear examples of what clubs in different areas are doing well so that other clubs have a chance to learn.

*Though even if that were the case to get the paddlers to a level to be picked up is still a great achievement.

[John Sturgess]

Michelle

Yes - there is a Yorkshire Regional Committee, consisting of the active slalom clubs in Yorkshire (c.10) 4 elected officers, but 'open' committee, meetings at races

The Committee
(1) runs 3 races at the Washburn (currently 1 Div 1, 2 Div 2)
(2) runs 2 training camps per year at Grandtully (Easter, August) on a very informal basis (no chrages made)
(c) co-ordinates a winter coaching/training programme for Yorkshire paddlers - mix of easy water for Div 3's and 4's up to days on HPP etc - used to be Tryweryn also, but difficult now it only opens 1 day per weekend, and scheduling in advance difficult

Andrew G

Slightly tongue in cheek? Yes, only 3 J16's in Prem - but that is out of 8 in Great Britain - North 3, Central 2, South 0, Scotland 0, Wales 3.

If you add on the J16's promoted but not yet raced, you get 21: North 4, Central 4, South 3, Scotland 4, Wales 6

However that does not mean that the North does not have problems! I tend not to use Prem numbers as a measure, because they tell what was happening in Clubs/Regions 2/3 years ago or more, rather than what is happening now (and in the case of Midlands domination of Prem, longer ago than that).

That is why I use numbers of ranked juniors racing 9 or more races per year (in a region/in a club/in the country as a whole) because having tried various measures, it is by a long way the best predictor. The down-turn in the South, for instance, was evident 2/3 years ago.

It also throws up hot-spots to watch: this year Aberdeen (which the Scots have taken on board) and Adur: has anyone noticed them?

[AndrewG]

Andrew G

Slightly tongue in cheek? Yes, only 3 J16's in Prem - but that is out of 8 in Great Britain - North 3, Central 2, South 0, Scotland 0, Wales 3.

John,

Not slightly tongue in cheek but absolutely, completely, 100%, tongue in cheek.
Sorry, I thought that the smiley made it obvious.
I just thought it odd that 747boy had referred to regions that are "a force in canoe slalom" but somehow managed to forget to mention the North.

But then again, no surprise that I did not agree with this part of his/her post as I did not agree with 95% of the remainder of it.

[Seedy Paddler]

It also throws up hot-spots to watch: this year Aberdeen (which the Scots have taken on board) and Adur: has anyone noticed them?

Interesting that you think the "Scots" have taken Aberdeen on-board.. That will be why the SCA Performance Director has yet to set foot in Aberdeen and address the various requests from Club Chairman and SCA Slalom Chairperson on what their plans are and when they will recognise what is happening in Aberdeen.

Of course Seaton Slalom site has only been in existence since the early 1970s and is the oldest permanent slalom training site in Scotland but then we are not Grandtully or Central belt. The annual Seaton Slalom has run since circa 1978, introducing many to the sport - not least Messrs Tim Baillie and David Florence.

But then Performance whether GB or SCA are the experts and have no need to consult, involve or support voluntary Club efforts, voluntary Clubs are there to pick up the discards as in the 1100 that failed to make the LV squad and ultimately those in the LV squad that fail to make the grades...

I do understand that most businesses are not directly answerable to their shareholders, however most businesses are not Membership Organisations where the member is shareholder, voluntary management, development, growth and customer. Unfortunately whilst Performance are employed by BCU/SCA they are funded by SportUK/SportScotland. In any attempt to re-direct the Performance Programme we risk the cessation of funding and ultimate bankruptcy. If in doubt ask SkiScotland and British Boxing on the reactions and threats when they tried to re-establish their democratic control

Craig Douglas