Competing in an Officials event

[Mrs C P Paddler]

May I remind organisers of rule C6.1.2 A competitor may not at one event enter both a ranking event or Championship event and an Officials event in the same or a different category.

It seems many organisers are not aware of this rule and I am now having to remove competitors from the Officials ranking having found then also competing in the ranking event.

Many thanks.

[slink]

It seems some organisers (and competitors) despite knowing the rules, still insist this is the only way to get judges. We challenged an organiser earlier this year and that was the response - and I notice in a soon to be run event, the same paddler has again entered an individual and officials event.

Removing points is not enough, unless you remove the points from their ranking event, not their officials points, as they are still obtaining the additional practice run that the other competitors often are unable to get due to water availability.

[bankside]

Slink, good point. If this is a quiz, can I have a clue on the event?

[Mrs C P Paddler]

If it is the case that this rule is being DELIBERATELY flouted then it is a matter for the Slalom Committee and I will let them know. I would be grateful, Slink if you could pm me and let me know when this happened.
Thanks

[slink]

Of course, the flipside of this is if it's decided (as has been stated by some) that it doesn't matter (except at prem), then let's get rid of the rule for the lower divisions and anyone fit enough (not me, then!) can do it...

[Sven]

Hi Mrs CP

Can I just clarify something as Im a bit muddled

If there us a shortage of judges at a race the organisers ask paddlers to judge but there is time to give them a judges run as a thank you are you saying this is not allowed? Even if the judges run result isn't put into any kind of ranking ?

Seems harsh to penalise folk for helping out?

As for removing their official class ranking points for lending a hand - really?

I understand the argument about possibly getting a bit more practice on the course but in reality I wonder how much difference it actually makes and any sensible paddler would probably not want to tire themselves out?

So a solution might be competitors who judge get their judges run at the end of the event?

[Mrs C P Paddler]

I think the rule is quite clear. In the past it has never been a problem so I fail to see why it is now. Late entry paddlers have often been asked to judge and they do not get a judges run. If you are racing AND judging do you really want to do both runs and risk tiring yourself out and ruining your run
Check rule B.6 .1 This says entrants must be able and willing to do judging or other official duties as requested by the organisers.
Do they really have time to do both?

[slink]

Hi Sven,

Imagine a div 1/2 race where there is no practice run at all due to the number of entries. A paddler manages to get a judges run, which happens to be before their ranking run, and then they "offer" to do it back to back. For several paddlers, this is a promotion points event as it's late season. Do you still think it makes no difference?

Granted, I was being rather controversial with my comment about the ranking points, and certainly wouldn't advocate it for a "first offence"!

The rule is clear

C6.1.2 A competitor may not at one event enter both a ranking event or Championship event and an Officials event in the same or a different category

officials runs are there as a "thank you" to those who aren't already racing.

However, your idea of the officials run at the end could solve the problem, especially if those runs could be fitted in protest time when we all need to wait for the clock to run out anyway. Not sure how many organisers would appreciate the extra level of complexity though, or the extra length of the event if every paddler who was judging wanted to take advantage of it.

[Sven]

I guess if there was no practice for competitors because of numbers I doubt the organiser would be in a position to offer judges a run any way.

Looking for solutions instead of obstacles

[Dee]

Most years I have had at least one person complain at me because I have said no to a judges run when he/she is already competing.

Even if the organiser is aware of and tries to implement rules we do need to educate paddlers. It's not uncommon for ranking entry and officials entry to be put in at different times which means you are basically relying on the organiser to notice the issue - not always easy to do if the officials entry comes in on the day of the race; as far as I know none of the software currently in use warns of the potential problem.

[Veronica]

Rules are rules and without them slalom would be chaos!

If competitors need to be "rewarded" for also judging then they could be given a uniform number of points like non-paddling officials.

It is unfair to allow official and competiors runs to the same paddler. Water conditions can and do change throughout the day and even if a paddler is taking an official run in a different boat to the ranking run it is allowing them to assess changes in the water which a paddler obeying the rules does not have until during their run.

[djberriman]

I think some common sense has to be applied to this.

For instance I have done this myself in the past by entering Div4 C2 with my wife for fun, short course anyway so only last 12 gates which are pretty much flat watter are paddled, the weir is not, entered officials as I've spent at least 3 days getting everthing ready for the event and I have to paddle K1 towards our Yorkshire Interclubs results, I'm ******** if I'm going to pay to enter the open for 2 runs when I've spent a fortune on fuel etc.

When this happened our ornganiser got a very terse email reminding them this was not allowed and citing unfair extra practice.

At the course in question it was possible to practice the course for approximately 48 hours before the event and as I was running around like a loon we got no practice in the C2 (and believe me we need it) and I got no practice in the K1. Paddling the C2 made no difference to how I paddled the K1 and visa versa.

So I guess what I'm saying that although it's a rule it does depend on the course whether it actually matters.

Take Washburn for instance, plenty of free practice on the morning of the event so what does an extra couple of runs actually mean other than a worn out paddler?

Also if practice at lunch is allowed, which is quite common now, surely that should be outlawed if we are saying it's unfair to have additional practice?

At some courses of course practice is very limited so the rule should be strictly enforced.

[Veronica]

Are you saying it is ok at Div 4 because that is not a ranked category or that a C2 crew is a different individual from the 2 individuals who make up the crew?

I don't think anyone has a problem with div4s breaking this rule but somewhere up the divisions it has to be enforced. Once a paddler is ranked and has a bib? Otherwise events are going to be over run with officials.

[slink]

I guess if there is plenty of free practice available it's not going to make a lot of difference except in the case Veronica speaks about - significant water level changes since practice, and an officials run somewhere before your ranking run giving an opportunity to "test the water".

I think we all turn a blind eye to some rules at div 4 events (how many boats do you see with white squares and circles these days?!), we're all trying to encourage newcomers and it's probably not an issue at this level - unless there's no practice available and someone uses it to gain an advantage (fairly unlikely at div 4, I would venture!).

The case I am concerned about is at div 2 and div 1 though, where there has often been limited practice (or even no practice at 1 event). At this level, as with the prems, I think it can make a difference, so maybe as Veronica said, enforcing at div 2 and higher is sensible, and remove it for div 3 & 4 events?

Lunchtime practice is available to all, officials events aren't...there is no rule (except at prem) about free practice, but there is about officials and ranking runs, so I guess that's a bit of a different case. Often if events are that tight on time that there was no free practice, there is no lunch break anyway!

However...

C26.2 A Competitor’s run is complete when they cross the finish line. The Competitor must not cross the finish line more than once at the risk of disqualification from that run (DSQ-R).

If you do a lunchtime practice run, does that infringe that rule, as it's not yet your next official run?

[Mrs C P Paddler]

If competitors need to be "rewarded" for also judging then they could be given a uniform number of points like non-paddling officials.

That's fine IF I was told by organisers of who the non-paddling judges were/are at an event. This year I have not had one name of a non-paddling judge!!!! Something I want to try and rectify for next year but needs more thought

However as I have previously stated rule B6.1 states that entrants must be able and willing to do judging or other duties as requested by the organisers, so why do we need to reward them?