Looking After Each Other

[djberriman]

As Nick as said on the front page of canoeslalom there is a distinct lack of mutual care which is slowly worsening.

Nick saw acts which are clearly in breach of the rules (UKC 19.7) at Shepperton.

At Llandysul this weekend I was not the only one two remind at least 2 paddlers of their responsibility to do safety after the end of their run. The excuse 'I forgot' does not wash in Division 1.

Surely we do not need another 'volunteer' to police safety and ensure paddlers are disqualified?

Parents and Coaches should ensure paddlers do their bit.

[Jeff]

Couldn't agree more.
I too am sick to death of reminding paddlers to remain on until two more paddlers have finished.
Last year I had to remind the padder immediately before me to stay on.
The second run he did exactly the same again.

[Toomuchtooyoung]

The not staying on at the end of the race is a regular occurrence, the paddlers know who the regular perpetrators are. It seems to be born out of the, win at all costs mentality, which has started to permeate, meaning paddlers are immediately jumping off the water to get their video feedback.
The behaviour at Shepperton was at another level, and it was clearly encouraged by the coaches, who shouted paddlers to keep on going despite passing over swimmers; not only dangerous and disrespectful, but an appalling advert for the sport. Unfortunately organisers can't rely on courtesy anymore and have to not only police the issue but be ready to act on it.

[BaldockBabe]

The rules do say that if you do not stay on the water then you WILL be disqualified (it used to be "may" but was changed at the ACM a few years ago.

The issue is that a) I have never known a jury to actually disqualify anyone on their first offence and b) if someone has had a bad run they don't care if they are disqualified.

a) is easy to sort - there is not discretion in the rules so the jury should not apply discretion. b) is harder to sort.

Neither deal with the issue that occurred at Shepperton. The paddler was allowed a re-run even though they had not intention of stopping and would not have done so if it had not been for the actions of the section judge.

[djberriman]

rule UKC 19.7 covers assisting others, surely it is at the discretion of the Jury to a) turn down a re-run b) disqualify that run or that competitor just as if they had breached any other rule.

When it has happened at events where I am aware the Jury has been involved since the change from may to will the Jury has just given people a telling off and as an organiser at such an event I have reminded the Jury Chair that is not appropriate.

Writing event safety plans (and being reminded to put the 2 paddler rule in) is all well and good but if the paddlers don't do what they are required to do and Jury's don't enforce the rules then we are all wasting our time and at the end of the day the slalom committee would sadly be culpable for not ensuring its rules and safety plans are enforced. If people were at least given a DSQ-R then a pattern of 'offending' would emerge and the paddlers could be brought to task as they are in polo for repeated 'offences'.

It is however very sad reflection on slalom if it has to come to that.

[BaldockBabe]

If people were at least given a DSQ-R then a pattern of 'offending' would emerge and the paddlers could be brought to task as they are in polo for repeated 'offences'.

We did have the name of a Div 1 K1W on a note on the timing team computers as she was a repeat offender last year and each time she re-offended she would be reported to the jury. I am not sure what happened in the end though...

[JimW]

I'm a bit shocked to be reading this, and I hope it is divisional/location trending and not all encompassing - certainly at the events I have been to in lower divisions I haven't seen there being a problem with paddlers not waiting, just the odd one or 2 that forgets, or tries to follow an instruction from an unwitting parent (who gets it explained).

BUT, can we all try to make sure we talk about 2 boats, not 2 paddlers - I was asked by the lad that followed me the other day if he still needed to stay on as the next boat was C2 so there would still be 2 'paddlers' on the water.

At the Grandtully WWR the other week it was decided to ask 3 boats to stay on when it became apparent that if there had been a swimmer and 2 had gone to help it would have left no cover for the next boat on the course, presumably slalom organisers are also able to request additional boats in addition to the 2 mandatory ones if they think it would be prudent?

As for not helping a swimmer ahead of you, there are factors to be considered. I don't know Shepperton but understand the course runs across the weir and back so presumably a swimmer could be a long way from bank rescue or the 2 boats waiting behind the finish line, clearly a competitor must stop and help and be given a re-run, and starts be interrupted as soon as the problem becomes apparent - preserving life should always come ahead of race runs or staying on schedule.
But if an adult competitor took a swim at say Stone, I would expect them to stand up and wade to the bank without any outside assistance or interruption (as long as they were clear of the gates), at the same time I would expect a child, even if able to stand up, would at least require assistance to get their kit clear of the course.

At the same time, don't underestimate the focus of a racer - I don't have much time to look around other than to identify my next gate and move towards it, I could conceivably paddle right past a swimmer just out of my line of sight without noticing unless a gate judge drew my attention to them (having first got my attention).
Now that I think about it, I have done this on a river trip - I paddled past (nearly over) 1 swimmer whilst chasing a different one, and only found out when others questioned what I was doing after the event, initially assuming I had for some reason chosen to go for the one that was further away.

[Mike Mitchell]

So slalom has changed.
We now have J12 and J14 paddlers out numbering adults. But everyone goes in bib order.
So you could have a J12 and 14 or even Two J12s responsible for rescuing an adult in difficulty.
So lets look at the worst possible case. You have a large adult stuck upside down in his Canoe and you have Two J12s to the rescue.
It is just not acceptable.

Disqualifying paddlers douse not work and is not the answer. You need a back up plan.

I once got disqualified at Washburn Prem, after what was probably the best run of my life. It cost me selection as well as ranking points. Yet after a good run and fully focused you still have to think about the next boats down.

Every organiser needs to do a risk assessment and deal with whatever problems could arise at there event.

[CeeBee]

When you get to the end of the course, you usually go into the eddy and get your breath back. It is no great hardship to sit there for a further 2 minutes and act as a safety boat. You don't have to think about it and usually if someone is swimming then people on the bank are shouting to those on the water so they can go and help.

I appreciate that younger paddlers won't necessarily have the capability. However, they will grow up and so may as well learn that they are expected to wait and help if this doesn't put them at risk. Many of the courses have a fairly easy section at the bottom and so helping someone out is fine. Often the paddler has swum to the side already and what you are doing is rescuing a paddle before it is lost. I wouldn't expect the paddlers at the bottom to be able to help in extreme circumstances if a paddler gets stuck in their boat.

Yes, organisers can put safety cover in place. Yet another task expected of organisers and we wonder why people don't want to run an event.

[Dee]

I once got disqualified at Washburn Prem, after what was probably the best run of my life. It cost me selection as well as ranking points. Yet after a good run and fully focused you still have to think about the next boats down.

Every organiser needs to do a risk assessment and deal with whatever problems could arise at there event.

But what do you suggest that they actually DO about it. Basically the risk here is that paddlers do not stay on the water after their run or are incapable of helping. The only solution is to find more invisible volunteers to provide safety cover. At Shepperton we do normally try to provide extra cover for the div 2s but I think at div 1 we have to have some expectations.
I am not committing myself and the club to covering any more roles.

I think the sport needs to get tougher on those disrespecting the rules. Don't wait at div 2 disqualified for run; do the same at div 1 get disqualified for both runs. I think the reason disqualification rarely happens at the moment is that because we don't have the manpower to police it, so it could be the luck of the draw as to who gets caught; maybe we stop worrying about being fair. No warnings, if you are caught, it just happens.

[djberriman]

Even a young paddler can offer assistance using any of the standard methods taught (presuming they are taught) which would allow a 'trapped' adult to right themselves. Coaches, parents and clubs should ensure their paddlers are taught basic rescue techniques.

If they really can't help they can ensure others are made aware of the situation, just as in any 'first aid' situation, there are always people around (judges, finisher, parents, other paddlers, safety team members).

If people get off then there is zero help and may be zero awareness of an issue, the paddler just continues on their merry way down the river.

Slalom is a very safe sport providing people do what they are required under the rules.

If you think the current rules are not sufficient or the safety plans of the organisers are insufficent then I suggest you raise it with GB canoeing or the slalom committee.

[Dee]

I'd also argue that any paddler in div 1 (or even 2) and above should be able to control their boat in the fairly flat water, that is usually at the end of the course, to the point where a swimmer can hold the end of the boat. They might not quite have the strength to paddle to the side with the swimmer holding on (although I think most probably have), but they should be able to stop the swimmer drifting further down stream.

If they can't do this on flat water then how on earth would they manage to paddle the rougher parts of the course without swimming. I sometimes wonder whether this is just parents being over protective and making excuses so that they can get their offspring off the water more quickly.

[The Throwline Guy]

It is all well and good complaining, but I've not seen any solutions yet..

This is going to get long... stick with it. It'le cover the problems and solutions related to: The Paddlers, The Clubs, The Organising Clubs and The Governing Bodies. I'm not trying to bash anyone or single anyone out, this is observations of Canoe Slalom as a whole.

Whilst I 100% agree that there is a safety problem at slalom events on the whole, there are a few clubs that display above and beyond safety at races. Oddly my experience of these it at lower division races, and there are many races in div 1 with poor or non-existent safety.

In my opinion there are multiple strands to this problem, and solution:

The first is The Paddlers:
Whilst expecting a div 1 k1M to rescue a boat and paddler effectively is a fair expectation, its rare for swimmers in this category. The issue comes with younger paddlers (granted increasingly present in the higher divisions) who do not have any white water experience or any rescue skills. Is this their fault? Not necessarily, most of us who paddle creek boats learnt to basics of paddling, rescuing and swimming in moving water through a club. So the solution? Clubs and development programmes need to be taking their young slalom paddlers on rivers and teaching them these basic skills (rescuing, swimming, paddling in moving water) so when on a slalom course they can look after themselves and others.

The next issue is The Organising Clubs:
One event organisers told me that the rules don't lay out any framework for safety at races, claiming that the 2 paddlers at the finish should be enough. In an ideal world it would be.
However there are multiple reasons why this isn't true.

- For example at Shepperton or HPP a swimmer may get stuck in an eddy: requiring them to either swim, as explained above and seen at Shepperton, many can't. Which leads to the remaining option, throwlines and people to throw them.

- Long Swims/ Drop out/ Flush drowning. At events like Shepperton or HPP swimmers regularly take long swims. At Shepperton all the way to the rowing club, at HPP 300/400 metres down stream. This has several possible outcomes: some of the worst include a paddler taking a long swim and suffering flush drowning or secondary drowning. Or deciding that the experience was so unpleasant they don't want to paddle any more, potentially meaning the loss of a paddler with great potential.
How to prevent these long swims? 1, teach the kids how to swim in moving water and self rescue. 2, effective rescue teams, throwlines and plastic boats.

- As mentioned above teaching kids the skills they need to rescue is important. However (I don't paddle C1) but I've been told its exceptionally hard to rescue from a C1 and this is from a 20yr old who is an effective creek paddler and can rescue well. Imagine how hard it could be for a couple of 12 yr old girls in C1's? How to fix it? 1, teach kids how to swim in moving water and self rescue, so they can be an effective part of their rescue. 2, effective rescue teams, throwlines and plastic boats.

- The last issue related to this point is the rescue teams at HPP. I don't want to be seen to be bashing these guys, for the most part they do a great job. However when there is a situation where parents and bystanders with no rescue skills or safety kit are trying to help the rescue of swimmers on what is a very slippy bank, there is a safety issue. Firstly because there is the potential for more swimmers, and secondly it shows the rescue teams are ineffective.

The Governing Body
So what support is there in the rules and from the uk's paddling governing bodies? None.
The excuse 'there is no frame work' whilst being a very poor excuse, is true. Should clubs be relying on rules to lay out safety? No. Should the Canoe Slalom Committee see the issue and respond? Yes.
SO perhaps the Slalom Handbook and organisers packs should include advice and a framework for safety.
Excuses clubs may give include: We don't have the club members, We aren't a white water club, we don't have the experience.
- If you don't have the club members could safety not be run on a similar basis to judging? Offer free lunch and tea to any experienced paddlers/ paddlers who will volunteer to sit in a plastic boat or throw a line for an hour or two a day?
- If your a club doesn't have to experience then perhaps find a WWSR course for a few of your more experienced slalom paddlers and organisers. This is where British Canoeing and the Slalom Committee could help with free/substituted WWSR courses for event organising clubs.

To Conclude

- Paddlers need to seek out experience and training on moving water: Swimming, self-rescuing, rescuing skills.
- Clubs and development programmes need to offer this training to their slalom paddlers.
- The organising clubs, need to put in place adequate safety cover. Experienced paddlers and rescuers with trowlines and plastic boats, where and when they are needed. (Having a few throwlines lying around doesn't cut it).
- Our governing bodies need to support this process: offer a framework and advice for organisers, and help with rescue training.

One last thought: do we have to wait until a paddler dies for this to change? History suggests we may, but lets be frank its likely to be someone little boy or little girl. If a young paddler dies during training or at an event, we would all be horrified. Can we please learn from the past and fix this before someone dies?

[TOG]

If they can't do this on flat water then how on earth would they manage to paddle the rougher parts of the course without swimming. I sometimes wonder whether this is just parents being over protective and making excuses so that they can get their offspring off the water more quickly.

One couldn't possibly comment of course; but even Div 3 paddlers should be able to cope. If we/parents don't teach kids early to have a sense of responsibility towards others, then what sort of paddlers are we producing? Sometimes, dare I say it, lessons need to be harsh - I was disqualified once (it was my mistake, so I accepted the blame) and I have never forgotten nor repeated the experience.

Put a notice at start reminding competitors of the rule; if they don't comply......

[Dee]

@TheThrowLineGuy

Interesting that you single out Shepperton here (in my view unreasonable) and mention the rowing club:

The majority of swims are usually in the centre section where the water can be so fast flowing as to wash the paddler out into flattish water incredibly quickly, right into the area where the previous competitors should be ready and waiting. Occasionally swimmers end up at the rowing club, but this can be because they have been swept very quickly into what, at that point, is a large expanse of water and the rowing club becomes the nearest bank (and the quickest to get to). Paddlers may swim further at Shepperton but this is partly the nature of the fast flow, the lack of rocks and other obstacles to slow them down (or break them up) and the fact that the water is very wide.

Note that in these circumstances a throw line is not particularly useful because of distance, and the only sensible place for rescue boats is below the course where a) we try to position someone, b) the previous paddlers should be waiting c) the next set of paddlers are usually warming up for their runs. Personally I don't think throw lines are particularly useful up by the weir either (the water is too far below the bank). In spite of this we do try to find people to man throw lines, but in spite of your rather blasé comments that we should treat safety in the same way as getting volunteers for judging; have you ever tried getting more volunteers at an event?........

It's interesting that there is all this focus on the competition itself, yet no one would expect us to provide safety for unofficial practice. If they did we would have to provide 24hr safety for several days running up to the event!

Regarding waiting for someone to die, you obviously have a short memory. I'm sure there will be others who immediately recalled Tully.

Finally, this thread started out about paddlers' etiquette and the need to look out for each other, but is increasingly turning into another "what else can we dump on the organiser?"