Newly-Promoted Paddlers

[the_c1_fish]

Just had the question about newly promoted paddlers asked to me and wanted to know what other paddlers, parents and organisers thought about this.

The general rumour is that if you are promoted 2 weeks before an event then an event organiser must accept you into their event

UK C11.3 Late entries will not be accepted except
(a) from newly-promoted Competitors whose promotion has not occurred more than two weeks before the event.

But there are many rules which contradict with this rule, as well as the fact that how can organisers possibly account for promoted paddlers especially when an event becomes full so far before the actual race. Washburn was full at the beginning of March and the actual race isn't until the middle of July. I have a waiting list of around 25 paddlers and still have another 20 unopened envelopes.

What are everyones thoughts on Newly promoted Paddlers being given a spot at races? Is it even a thing? Should it be a thing? How can organisers cope with it?

[BaldockBabe]

If the event is full then you are NOT required to accept further entries even if they are from recent promotes.

However, if the event is not full after the deadline then recent promotes will get priority for the available spaces.

When I closed entries for an event I did not run a waiting list but instead if someone pulled out in advance I filled the spaces with any promotes that fell within the "no more than 2 weeks before the event" rule.

[JimW]

You posted the rest of the section in your event thread, and reading through it seems simple enough to me, although the waiting list itself does seem to be implied, and optional

Closing date is the Friday 2 weeks before the event - in your case 1st July.
All entries received are recorded in date order (we have discussed this before, lets just assume it is as easily done as said!)
Once the event fills up, entries go on the waiting list in the order you received them, up until the closing date.
Anyone who started in the division (div 1) or got promoted before the closing date can send entries in after the event fills up, until the closing date. The closing date is a Friday which means anyone who gets a mid-season promotion will always have 5 working days between promotion and the closing date of the next event that is more than 2 weeks away, first class post very rarely fails to deliver within 5 days. All these entries go on the wating list in the order received.
Once the closing date passes, the only entries you need to add to the waiting list are the ones from paddlers who were promoted after the closing date - in your case Howsham Weir on July 9/10. Any entry received after 1st June that does not say promoted at Howsham 9 or 10 July should be discarded or returned.

No-one who entered after the event filled up is accepted at this point, but they are on the waiting list. Only newly promoted paddlers (within the last 2 weeks) can get on the waiting list after the closing date - this is as close to fair to them as it is possible to be.

When spaces appear in the start list (promotions, drop outs) you 'may' allocate them to people on the waiting list in the order their entries were received. The newly promoted paddlers will all be right at the bottom of that list so can't leap-frog anyone who entered earlier, it's just that only newly promoted paddlers should be on the list with entries in the final 2 weeks.

There are probably some elephants in the room!
Paddle ups and events with 2 divisions spring to mind - there seem to be no rules explicitly explaining how to deal with them if promoted after closing date, or priority entry date for PUs.
Also, now that BC requires a risk assesment to be approved, if your limit is on the RA, this might limit your ability to accept a few extras depending on how you worded it!

[harratts]

Hi Sam.

Of course I have a vested interest in raising this point but thanks for your comments posted in the alternative thread.

Everything said above by Jim is correct and logical but if all Div.1 races from Mid. July until the end of the season become full before the end of April then what is the point in any current Div.2 paddler getting promoted until later in the season?

Steve

[Dee]

This did come up in an earlier thread that was discussing opening dates. Specifically not allowing or accepting any entries before a certain date could ease this situation a little, in that early promotions would at least get the opportunity to race later in the year.


However things may not be as dire as they seem. With div 1 races filling up so fast paddlers are entering first and then deciding whether they can/want to race so cancellations will be at an all time high and some of those on the waiting list will make other plans.

I know that 25 waiting list entries sounds excessive (never mind the other 20), but after this year's experience with Shepperton I would not be at all surprise to see you offering runs to most of those on the list.

I did loose count of those moved from the waiting list at Sheppy, but more than one paddler reacted with something akin to astonishment when they reached the top of the list having seen how far down they were earlier. Bear in mind that Shepperton is at the start of the season so paddlers were only able to enter a couple of months ahead of time and yet I still had an unbelievable number of dropouts.

[rose]

I anticipate I will get promoted this weekend to div 1, three months before the div 1 at Washburn, and it is an ideal venue for your first div 1. So I think it would be reasonable to say entries cannot be accepted until six week before an event.

I have no criticism of the organisers, but the governing body should be looking at making the events accessible to all those who qualify, even if they have to help fund the events???

[CeeBee]

I agree that for races which will become full well in advance, there needs to be a few places held back for promotees.

They can't enter early as they don't know they will be promoted and even if they could enter in advance and assume they are promoted, this is a bit presumptuous and puts too much pressure on the paddler.

[stevepearson]

Not idea but perhaps they could enter as paddle up, then when promoted surely the date of paddle up entry stands

[davebrads]

I agree that for races which will become full well in advance, there needs to be a few places held back for promotees.

They can't enter early as they don't know they will be promoted and even if they could enter in advance and assume they are promoted, this is a bit presumptuous and puts too much pressure on the paddler.

I disagree, why should a recent promotee have precedence over someone else?

Not idea but perhaps they could enter as paddle up, then when promoted surely the date of paddle up entry stands

This won't work either, the events are already full with division 1 paddlers and so paddle ups don't have an entry anyway.

I have no criticism of the organisers, but the governing body should be looking at making the events accessible to all those who qualify, even if they have to help fund the events???

I agree that action has to be taken, though to make it work it will mean making some tough decisions that won't be popular with everybody. I will start another thread rather than clutter this one.