ACM Motion - Scrap discounts for Multi Class & Double Events

[Nick Taylor]

(I've posted this before but it was a long way down a long post. It would be good to get opinions on this before I submit a motion for the ACM (Motions due by 27-Oct)

I've experienced & heard about problems caused by incorrect entries so until all events are able to use an on-line entry system that works it all out for us here are some personal suggestions to simplify entry fees to help competitors & organisers:

Scrap multi class discount. I don't think people need encouraging to enter multiple classes.

Scrap the discount for entering a double event eg Div 1 Double (Sat & Sun) £31, Single (Sat or Sun) £19.25.

I'm not trying to make more or less money so alter all entry fees so that the total fees paid over the whole season is the same. I haven't done the maths but it would look something like this

Fees for one day:
- Prem & Div 1 £16
- Div 2 £8
- Div 3 £7
- Div 4 £4

Scrap late entry fees (I'm not sure about this one but simpler would be better)

[pcm]

I strongly disagree with this idea about the MCD although I do appreciate the argument of simplicity.

I for one have definitely been encouraged by this rule, I certainly wouldn't have raced C1 as much and I probably would have stuck with K1 as my main discipline, let alone paddled any C2! If there was no discount, I would have really struggled to convince my parents to pay for another entry if it was just as expensive as the first.

[lesf]

I also understand the desire to simplify, but reducing a single entry fee could affect the viability of some events at more costly venues, and make the step up to enhanced entry fees larger

[John Stoner]

Sorry, but I too strongly disagree! This would lessen the likelihood of younger paddlers giving C1/C2 a go.

[ruthsy]

I am far from convinced that this is the way to go. When my son was still in Div 4 a Div 1 paddler offered to do a C2 run with him which at the time gave him confidencce and added excitement to the day. He is now in the position where he can do the same and is able to do this because of the low cost of the additional entry. Whatever we do should encourage participation and we need to put ourselves in the shoes of the new paddler/family who are potentially having their first exposure to what can be an expensive sport

[CeeBee]

I am 100% in favour of discounts for those who do extra classes.

One of the families in our club has 4 paddlers racing at Prem/Div 1 and I think that the discount should also apply when > 2 paddlers from same family in the same race.

If we had too many doing more than 1 class, we might need to reconsider but there aren't that many that do a second class and so it makes little difference to the organisers other than trying to fit C1/C2s in round K1s.

At the Div 3/4 we ran, we offered all our club members free C1/C2 entries if they were competing in Div 3 and had already paid the £13 double entry fee. Many families have 2 children racing at Div 3/4s so £13 per entry x 2 is £26 and we are trying to encourage them to try the other classes.

The work goes in setting up the course and running the event and a few extra entries makes little difference to the organiser but a big difference to the paddler. More racing means that paddlers get more from the weekend and more likely to continue.

People will always get the entry fees wrong until we have an online entry system which charges the right amount. But, the number that get it wrong is only a small percentage and we could improve the yearbook to add a comment in for the races that people aren't sure of e.g. the prem/Div1s when the charge is 2 x single rather than a double (personally i think the fee should be a double and not 2 singles).

Maybe each event could have an additional line saying 'standard entry fees', 'enhanced entry fees' or 2 x single fee if prem/Div 1.

I would possibly market the fees as -

a single standard race fee e.g. £19.25 and then
an additional reduced race fee for 2nd and subsequent races e.g. £11.75 (60% of standard race fee)

1 double entry = 1 standard + 1 reduced. (This is the same as the current double)

If they do a second class then 2 double entries = 1 standard + 3 reduced.

[Mike Mitchell]

The easiest option is to make C2 free of charge, providing one paddler is in another class.
Nobody will need a calculator then to work out the entry fee.
Then C2 may survive.

[Dee]

I would not scrap late fees as it really helps organiser if paddlers enter in advance and this is a good incentive to do so

I don't believe that the multiclass discount has a huge impact. Experienced paddlers offering to do C2 runs with newbies has far more impact I suspect. Perhaps only do multiclass discount for div 3/4 events where majority of entries are on the day

[Monty]

Scrapping MCD would add considerable additional expense to what is already a very expensive sport. Surely the idea is to encourage the development of both K and C classes at all levels. There are few enough Prem C1 women as it is. As a parent who regularly funds one daughter in both classes and will soon be funding two in both classes, I am extremely grateful for the discount available.

[davewaine]

Quite agree with making it simpler - as an organiser sorting out the entries is always a nightmare. Let's just get a complete on-line system running for all events, this would then sort out any of the querks

[JimW]

As I understand it the main stumbling block with full online entry is on the banking side (different clubs with different banks and account types to be paid through a single banking provider's portal), but maybe it would be possible to create an online fees calculator in the interim to reduce the number of mistakes?

Discounts and late fees don't affect my decisions on what to enter, but I can understand how they are important for families with several kids (and sometimes parents) all competing, when choosing between participation and simplification, I think I will have to support participation.

[Nick Taylor]

Would another club be prepared to second a motion intended to simplify things but intended to make average costs the same?
I hear tales of 30%-50% of entry cards being wrong so there is a problem & on-line entry seems unlikely to be available for most events in 2017

I've experienced & heard about problems caused by incorrect entries so until all events are able to use an on-line entry system that works it all out for us here are some personal suggestions to simplify entry fees to help competitors & organisers:

Scrap multi class discount. I don't think people need encouraging to enter multiple classes.

Scrap the discount for entering a double event eg Div 1 Double (Sat & Sun) £31, Single (Sat or Sun) £19.25.

I'm not trying to make more or less money so alter all entry fees so that the total fees paid over the whole season is the same. I haven't done the maths but it would look something like this

Fees for one day:
- Prem & Div 1 £16
- Div 2 £8
- Div 3 £7
- Div 4 £4

[Dee]

As I understand it the main stumbling block with full online entry is on the banking side (different clubs with different banks and account types to be paid through a single banking provider's portal), but maybe it would be possible to create an online fees calculator in the interim to reduce the number of mistakes?

Watch this space ......

[Dee]

... on-line entry seems unlikely to be available for most events in 2017...

... never count chickens ... no guarantees but keeping fingers crossed