Having looked at the managed calendar for next year and heard a lot of the gripes that people have had over the last couple of seasons. Especially from parents who have two or children competing across different divisions.
Currently the planned calendar for next year has the following amount of venues planned.
Prem - 8 venues
Div 1 - 12 venues
Div 2 - 25 venues (2 different venues over some weekends)
Div 3/4 -39 venues (3 different venues over one weekend) over 24 weekends
Reduce all divisions to 8 venues (16 races if not championship format) between March & October. Running in a descending or ascending order and remove FREE practice at all divisions allowing more time to race.
For example each month would run as so, or in different order.
Weekend 1 - Prem
Weekend 2 - Div 1
Weekend 3 - Div 2
Weekend 4 - Div 3/4
Some months obviously have 5 weekends. In particular Sept when Interclubs is usually held. This would allow that to run as normal but with no other events scheduled for the same weekend hopefully making it an even better supported weekend.
This still allows for 16 races over a whole season.
Benefits
Would slow down promotion and allow a greater focus on targeting training for development. Especially junior paddlers between each race.
It could also bring in more paddlers to each event increasing the revenue. Allow better planning and access to better water in the lower divisions, particularly Div 2 where most of the distain seems to be on the varied range of water quality.
Q. But would this not limit the amount of clubs running each event?
A. Yes if clubs continued to work alone in organising events.
A solution could be to gorm regional committees that are responsible for organising and running the events with the proceeds being split.
Would need careful thought on how the proceeds would be allocated.
Similar systems work in other countries but could it work for us?
With more clubs involved in running each event it could be possible to elevate the pressure on Div 1 by running the event over a longer day (see davebrads post on restructuring the divisions).
It would also make it less likely to have inquorate classes at div 4 (see Ceebees post on inquorate classes)
Just a thought and waits to be shot.
Reduce the number of events across the Divisions?
Re: Reduce the number of events across the Divisions?
I can't see many agreeing with this.
Focussing in the lower divisions (as that us whereyour proposal would have most impact)....
You would be asking paddlers who are not yet committed to the sport to travel greater distances; it us unrealistic to expect those in the South to travel several 100 miles north for a div 4 race (or vice versa)
Not all paddlers have access to proper club support (though I think this is improving), or even slalom courses with gates, so for some the competitions are the only opportunities that they get to practice on gates and maybe even get some coaching.
Div 3/4s already complain that there are not enough suitable events within reasonable distance, reduction in the number of events will make it worse.
Not all paddlers are trying for the top, many paddle for fun and, whilst the competition element is part of the fun, serious, planned training is not for them.
Focussing in the lower divisions (as that us whereyour proposal would have most impact)....
You would be asking paddlers who are not yet committed to the sport to travel greater distances; it us unrealistic to expect those in the South to travel several 100 miles north for a div 4 race (or vice versa)
Not all paddlers have access to proper club support (though I think this is improving), or even slalom courses with gates, so for some the competitions are the only opportunities that they get to practice on gates and maybe even get some coaching.
Div 3/4s already complain that there are not enough suitable events within reasonable distance, reduction in the number of events will make it worse.
Not all paddlers are trying for the top, many paddle for fun and, whilst the competition element is part of the fun, serious, planned training is not for them.
Kit Washer, Entry Clerk, Chauffeur, Reluctant Organiser, Online Entry Advocate .....
Anything I post under this user is my personal opinion; I am not posting as a member of the Slalom Committee!
Anything I post under this user is my personal opinion; I am not posting as a member of the Slalom Committee!
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paddlerparent
- Posts: 95
- Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2015 3:52 pm
Re: Reduce the number of events across the Divisions?
Run more not less!!!!
Re: Reduce the number of events across the Divisions?
This about the daftest idea I've ever heard. Clearly not in the interest of the lower divisions.
I can see no benefit what so ever from my point of view as the organiser of a Div 4 slalom and as the parent of kids in Div 3 & 4.
This would kill the sport stone dead.
I can see no benefit what so ever from my point of view as the organiser of a Div 4 slalom and as the parent of kids in Div 3 & 4.
This would kill the sport stone dead.
Re: Reduce the number of events across the Divisions?
Most if not all of the Div 2 races I've been to this year have been full, or very close to full, certainly the ones in England, although Shepperton this weekend might be way short.
Having more clubs jointly running events to maximise water time sounds great on paper, but is it really practical?
- Washburn, Yorkshire water start the release at 8:30 and shut off at 17:30, it takes 30 minutes to ramp up to steady flow to set the gate heights, it only takes a minor issue with turning the water on, or comms, or re-runs or something and those events rapidly head into danger of not completing before the water goes off, it is a credit to everyone that they do manage to complete all the runs. Does one club run those or is it a regional group of clubs?
- Symonds Yat, had enough volunteers to skip lunch break and get very close to schedule this year but is always up against it - the better the weather the more tourers they have to let through, and they had a real nightmare with comms and timing on the Saturday. Another brilliant salvage just to get everything done whilst it was daylight, some of the div 3's may well feel that it was getting dark by the time they finished on Saturday (it had clouded over and started raining). Members of Cheltenham and Wyedean help out although it is listed as Cheltenhams event.
- HPP, plenty of daylight but the centre wouldn't open early (although it did stay open a little late to let everyone out), the gate was opened 10 minutes before official practice, even the orgsanisers couldn't get in to start getting things ready. We were 'parked' on the approach road for so long that a lot of kids got changed by the roadside and walked into the centre for free practice leaving their parents to park and find them later in the day. Do we need contingency? well there was a lightning strike on site which meant the course had to be cleared and the racing couldn't be concluded until there had been 30 minutes clear with no lightning - no one planned for that, it would have killed a tighter schedule.
- Pinkston, at first glance we have the site for the whole weekend, there are staff available on site all weekend, we pay for pumping by the hour so as long as there are runs happening the entry fees pay for the pumps, we have floodlights so could continue right through the night if we wanted to - we train under floodlights all winter anyway. But the club is very small and already draft in help from I think every other club in Scotland to help run the event - I'm just not sure we could find more people to run through the night (or even extend a couple of hours). Parking is tight anyway and keeping 150 extra boats stored tidily on site is always a challenge.
I don't think it is even vaguely viable for most div 2 and higher events to be extended.
Plenty of people have told me that a lot of beginners won't travel far for a div 3 event, and that a lot or promotees to div 2 never apply for their bib because they don't want to travel very far (for under 17's of course it may be the parents that don't want to travel far and put a stop on things when they realise where it is leading), or it may simply be that most of them are young kids whose interests change from one year to the next.
What we need is more paddlers in the lower divisions, which will in turn boost attendance, rather than a quick fix to make attendance look better for undersized divisions.
Having more clubs jointly running events to maximise water time sounds great on paper, but is it really practical?
- Washburn, Yorkshire water start the release at 8:30 and shut off at 17:30, it takes 30 minutes to ramp up to steady flow to set the gate heights, it only takes a minor issue with turning the water on, or comms, or re-runs or something and those events rapidly head into danger of not completing before the water goes off, it is a credit to everyone that they do manage to complete all the runs. Does one club run those or is it a regional group of clubs?
- Symonds Yat, had enough volunteers to skip lunch break and get very close to schedule this year but is always up against it - the better the weather the more tourers they have to let through, and they had a real nightmare with comms and timing on the Saturday. Another brilliant salvage just to get everything done whilst it was daylight, some of the div 3's may well feel that it was getting dark by the time they finished on Saturday (it had clouded over and started raining). Members of Cheltenham and Wyedean help out although it is listed as Cheltenhams event.
- HPP, plenty of daylight but the centre wouldn't open early (although it did stay open a little late to let everyone out), the gate was opened 10 minutes before official practice, even the orgsanisers couldn't get in to start getting things ready. We were 'parked' on the approach road for so long that a lot of kids got changed by the roadside and walked into the centre for free practice leaving their parents to park and find them later in the day. Do we need contingency? well there was a lightning strike on site which meant the course had to be cleared and the racing couldn't be concluded until there had been 30 minutes clear with no lightning - no one planned for that, it would have killed a tighter schedule.
- Pinkston, at first glance we have the site for the whole weekend, there are staff available on site all weekend, we pay for pumping by the hour so as long as there are runs happening the entry fees pay for the pumps, we have floodlights so could continue right through the night if we wanted to - we train under floodlights all winter anyway. But the club is very small and already draft in help from I think every other club in Scotland to help run the event - I'm just not sure we could find more people to run through the night (or even extend a couple of hours). Parking is tight anyway and keeping 150 extra boats stored tidily on site is always a challenge.
I don't think it is even vaguely viable for most div 2 and higher events to be extended.
Plenty of people have told me that a lot of beginners won't travel far for a div 3 event, and that a lot or promotees to div 2 never apply for their bib because they don't want to travel very far (for under 17's of course it may be the parents that don't want to travel far and put a stop on things when they realise where it is leading), or it may simply be that most of them are young kids whose interests change from one year to the next.
What we need is more paddlers in the lower divisions, which will in turn boost attendance, rather than a quick fix to make attendance look better for undersized divisions.
Re: Reduce the number of events across the Divisions?
IDL wrote:This about the daftest idea I've ever heard. Clearly not in the interest of the lower divisions.
I can see no benefit what so ever from my point of view as the organiser of a Div 4 slalom and as the parent of kids in Div 3 & 4.
This would kill the sport stone dead.
Sums it up nicely.
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djberriman
- Posts: 806
- Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:19 pm
Re: Reduce the number of events across the Divisions?
IMHO opinion people want more events,more variety and if possible more local events. Not only does this make it cheaper and easier to compete but it also generates new entrants to the sport as people won't travel far.
If free practice were to be removed I'd pretty much guarantee I'd give up the sport and I'm sure some others would and it would be difficult to get new entrants into the sport. If it was just turn up and race then the cost per run down the river means the sport would even be less attractive to potential paddlers than it already is.
Some paddlers only access to white water/slalom courses is at events, it is also much easier to justify turning up to an event if you can practice before and throughout the weekend. It would hugely favour local paddlers with regular access to the water.
If free practice were to be removed I'd pretty much guarantee I'd give up the sport and I'm sure some others would and it would be difficult to get new entrants into the sport. If it was just turn up and race then the cost per run down the river means the sport would even be less attractive to potential paddlers than it already is.
Some paddlers only access to white water/slalom courses is at events, it is also much easier to justify turning up to an event if you can practice before and throughout the weekend. It would hugely favour local paddlers with regular access to the water.
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djberriman
- Posts: 806
- Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:19 pm
Re: Reduce the number of events across the Divisions?
PS. Yes Washburn (and now Tees - yes we know it's not in Yorkshire) are run by Yorkshire Slalom which is made up of Yorkshire Slalom clubs.
Re: Reduce the number of events across the Divisions?
Totally accept all the responses and tbh what I expected.
Like I said I was just a thought as looking at the entry stats there is a slow decline in numbers, which everyone is aware of, already entering the lower divisions, 2015 avg. of all classes div 3 - 33 over 75 races and div 4 -17 over 74.
Like I said I was just a thought as looking at the entry stats there is a slow decline in numbers, which everyone is aware of, already entering the lower divisions, 2015 avg. of all classes div 3 - 33 over 75 races and div 4 -17 over 74.
Re: Reduce the number of events across the Divisions?
I wonder if the OP has considered the level of commitment required for clubs to get low div paddlers to only 8 venues? It would drastically impact on the number of people taking up the sport and reduce it to the numbers of paddlers we had a few years back.. I've seen the umber of paddlers competing increase a fait bit over the past 5 years, with the ensuing financial input into the sport and one way of accommodating the numbers at lower levels is to have more venues. Also the logistics of getting all div 3 paddlers entered and scheduled to run in only 8 venues would be impossible.