6.9 Promotion Points to be increased for C2

[Canadian Paddler]

Proposed by CR Cats, seconded by Pinkston Panthers
Currently you only need 3350 points to get promoted from C2 Div 2/3 to Prem/Div 1. Paddlers are getting promoted too quickly to Div 1 before they are ready to race at this water level. Those C2 paddlers who can race on harder water will be able to do so under Portable Points.
This motion proposes to increase the points required to be promoted from 3350 to 4000 points. Page 49

B4.3.2 Canadian Doubles
Division 2/3 to Premier/1: on gaining 4000 points from the best five events or achieving maximum points at three events. or a combination of maximum points or achieving the ‘paddle up standard’ in three events.

[davebrads]

I like this, we will start racing in division 2 again next year if this goes through and give up our purple bib.

[Steve Agar]

Given the number of inquorate events (see other thread!) I would suggest having a look at the statistics to check what difference this change might make to the number of crews promoted (and, more subjectively, the "standard" of promotees). If this change gets more crews paddling at more events and more divisions, I'm all for it. Do we still have enough div 2 events on testing water to provide the progression and increased experience and confidence for new div 1 crews that we need, and this change is trying to assist? If not, will this change help, or hinder, matters without additional measures such as guaranteeing a minimum of, say, 8 places reserved for C2s at div 1s so that those that want to gain portable points really get the opportunity? Without quorate div 1 events, C2s may gain some experience but won't get the points they need from PP and may then choose to go for "easy" , and cheaper, div 2s, and we've failed to achieve what we trying to.

[harratts]

This is a fantastic proposal but in my opinion does not go far enough.

Surely the target to get promoted from a combined Div. 2/3 class to a combined Prem./1 class should be the same target as getting promoted from a stand alone Div. 2 class to a stand alone Div. 1 class.

After all that is the overall affect of such a promotion when applied to such classes.

Too late to change the proposal now even if everyone did agree so any change would be better than no change to this target requirement.

Steve

[JimW]

Spot on Steve and Steve - we can have this rule for a year, see if it makes things better or worse and then if necessary put forward a new motion next year to improve it, or remove it as appropriate.

This comes back to something Steve Agar mentions in the PP thread - I don't know about CR CATS but Pinkston Panthers have not given any thought to how we measure the success or otherwise of this change (or any of the others). I guess we need to look at the stats and think about what improvement we would like to see - this can't be part of the motion now but we can discuss it now and write it down it as a basis for measuring the success towards the end of next season to determine if a further motion is required. You guys race C2, what do you think we need to see to confirm that this has worked as intended?

- Increase in div 2/3 C2s doing more than 1 (or 2 or 3) races?
- Increase in average points score for prem/1 C2s indicating that the remaing crews are coping better with the conditions?
- Reduction in number of C2s getting promoted - I don't like having to write it this way because the aim is not to reduce numbers, but to ensure promotees are ready for promotion.
- Anecdotal evidence from crews that they are enjoying it more not having to worry about accidentally getting promoted beyond their ability?

Do we still have enough div 2's on testing water?
Tully is confirmed. I think the green splodge means HPP is a late addition to be ratified at ACM?
Are Washburn and Shepperton testing enough (both have Div 1 races)? Can Bala Mill be testing enough if the falls are/can be used?
Pinkston isn't, and it is not something we have discussed, but talk to us - it might be an option if PADDLERS want it made more testing. It will be difficult to design the course and quite a variation from the current plan, and as far as I know has not been considered before, but there may be possibility?

[CeeBee]

I chose 4000 points as a half way point between the current promotion level and the K1 points of 4500. I had considered making this higher but if I had dithered any further, I would have missed the submission date for the motions!

I would be quite happy for the points to be higher.

When the motions are discussed at the ACM, amendments can be made to any of the motions. Those at the ACM will then vote on the amended motion. Those not at the ACM need to have submitted a proxy vote allowing discretion. There are 2 ways proxy votes allow votes on the amendment -

1. Where Pro/Con is selected, and Discretion is to be used Vote for (or against the original motion, and vote on amendment/ amended motions in line with the proxies understanding of our intent.
2. Where neither Pro nor Con is selected, but discretion is given, vote in line with the proxies understanding of our intent.

So, would we want the amendment be for 4500 points to be required to be promoted from Div 2/3 to Prem/Div 1?

[harratts]

Yes Catherine.

4,500 points would be my favoured new target for C2 promotion but that is just my point of view.

It would allow me and my various C2 partners to enter many more Div.2 races than we are currently able to do without the fear of getting promoted to a water level that we can't cope with. If several other C2 crews find themselves in a similar situation then this should have the desired effect of increasing C2 entry numbers at many more races and corate events may become more common than not ensuring that C2 can remain as a Ranking Class.

Everyone is a winner!
Steve

[CeeBee]

It's a deal!

It can always be changed again at the 2017 ACM if this motion (or any other motion) has unintended adverse consequences.

[WindsorCC]

I think that's a good plan as well for 2017, I'd like to do some C2 with my other boys without the danger of going up again!

[harratts]

Be careful that you don't get thought of as a pot hunter Paul.

[Canadian Paddler]

The motion was amended to set the target at 4500 points the same as for all other classes was proposed by Stafford and Stone seconded Manchester. This amendment was accepted nem con.
The amended motion was accepted nem con.

[WindsorCC]

Be careful that you don't get thought of as a pot hunter Paul.

Certainly wouldn't want that Steve! Maybe I need to just stick the 8-year old twins in the boat on their own and see how they get on... If nothing else the arguments down the course would be a spectator sport.

[Canadian Paddler]

One thing that came up at teh meeting was a suggestion that C2 shoudl be run as a single division, picking up points as appropriate at each division. More points teh higher up teh divisions you paddle. Thoughts from those that paddle C2?

[harratts]

Hi Colin,

Many C2 crew views about having just one C2 combined Prem. - Div. 4 class have already been made on an alternative thread that Nick started which was called "Is C2 still viable as a Ranking Class?"

We could try the higher promotion points target for the 2017 season and as you suggested in the other thread bring this proposal through as a motion at next years ACM if things have not improved.

Lunch was fabulous by the way. Thanks to whoever organised it.

Steve

[Steve Agar]

As Steve H notes, there is an alternative thread, and the debate needs to be widened. I don't think a single division would achieve more paddlers as, in my own experience, people generally want to compete with their peers in the same time and the same place and not just paddle for points that lead to some ultimate ranking. A good day on the water amongst like-minded folks is what enthuses people, so more quorate events would be my aim (solutions not provided here!).

Steve A