ACM Motion 6.5 Extreme Slalom Rules

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Canadian Paddler
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ACM Motion 6.5 Extreme Slalom Rules

Post by Canadian Paddler » Tue Nov 06, 2018 1:02 pm

Aka Slalom Cross, aka Boater Cross aka Kayak Cross. As men’s and women’s extreme slalom are World Cup and World Championship events, and there was a British team selected in 2018 (albeit self funding), the rules for extreme slalom in the UK should be documented.
With the limited experience of these events in the UK, the ICF rules will be adapted to remove nationality restrictions and limits.
The UK Slalom Rules will be extended with Rules 68 to 87 as in the separate Extreme Slalom Rule paper available at the meeting
All spelling errors are intentional and are there to show new and improved ways of spelling old words. Grammatical errors are due to too many English classes/teachers.
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Alison
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Re: ACM Motion 6.5 Extreme Slalom Rules

Post by Alison » Wed Nov 21, 2018 6:10 pm

Is there any plan for the ICF to update their rules following this year's racing? (To our knowledge the meeting which was going to happen with competitors to feedback hasn't happened, not sure it will now) If they do update would we also update?

Also if this motion is accepted I'm guessing we need to wait to 2019 before we can suggest additional rules which we feel would make the racing better/fairer (and ideally we would want to change in the ICF rules).

Canadian Paddler
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Re: ACM Motion 6.5 Extreme Slalom Rules

Post by Canadian Paddler » Wed Nov 21, 2018 7:46 pm

Congress is this weekend and the proposal is to take ICF rules directly at this stage.
Currently a 75 25 so no ability to change rules. But if not 75 25 it's up to the chair how much change he deems within the scope.

Of course not all boater cross will use official rules but will keep going with their initiatives.

Be interested in the changes you think would improve things as they can be discussed and sent to ICF Slalom committee for consideration for 2020 rule changes.
All spelling errors are intentional and are there to show new and improved ways of spelling old words. Grammatical errors are due to too many English classes/teachers.
Old. Fat. Slow. Bad tempered. And those are my good points

Alison
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Re: ACM Motion 6.5 Extreme Slalom Rules

Post by Alison » Wed Nov 21, 2018 9:25 pm

Thanks.

We currently have a page of thoughts covering things like the need to use electronic beams for the timing of the time trials to officials needing to record their judging decisions.

What I haven't had chance to do is match them up to what rule would be needed to be modified or indeed written. I'll try and do some more work on it and bring along what I have on Saturday.

JimW
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Re: ACM Motion 6.5 Extreme Slalom Rules

Post by JimW » Wed Nov 21, 2018 11:48 pm

Canadian Paddler wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 7:46 pm
Congress is this weekend and the proposal is to take ICF rules directly at this stage.
Currently a 75 25 so no ability to change rules. But if not 75 25 it's up to the chair how much change he deems within the scope.

Of course not all boater cross will use official rules but will keep going with their initiatives.

Be interested in the changes you think would improve things as they can be discussed and sent to ICF Slalom committee for consideration for 2020 rule changes.
Out of interest, why have the slalom committee adopted boaterX?
I find the phrase "With the limited experience of these events in the UK" slightly disturbing when I know there is considerable breadth of experience of boaterX away from slalom. I'm actually surprised that freestyle haven't taken it on since one of the biggest races in the UK each year is part of a freestyle event. I know a lot of the independant organisers are anti-establishment and don't want to be involved with ICF so it is unlikely that a new committee will form to take it on, but freestlye are already involved with ICF and boaterX, WWR are involved with ICF and whilst not yet involved with boaterX would seem to be a better match than slalom.
Is it simply because ICF have added the word slalom to the name of their version of it?

Obviously this has no bearing on the actual motion, I'm just baffled why it has become a slalom matter in the first place.

humphr
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Re: ACM Motion 6.5 Extreme Slalom Rules

Post by humphr » Thu Nov 22, 2018 6:41 am

I think this is viewed as a potential Olympic sport that would obviously feature at the slalom venue.

If WWR or Freestyle ran it it wouldn’t get near the Olympics would it.

Traditionally held alongside freestyle events yes but going forward I can only see it moving forward with slalom

Why can’t they call it BoaterX ?
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Re: ACM Motion 6.5 Extreme Slalom Rules

Post by CeeBee » Thu Nov 22, 2018 12:24 pm

My perception is that the ICF are more focussed on Sprint canoeing so maybe we should include the word Sprint in the title and have a test event at HPP on the flat over 200m!

Sprint have far more boats at the Olympics and the number of boats for canoeing at the Olympics is unlikely to change so to accommodate this event, we would need Sprint to give up some of their classes. I actually think Canoe Polo would be a better Olympic sport than Extreme Slalom and would give far more canoeists the chance to compete at the Olympics.

There has been a BBC article very recently about whether the Olympics is sustainable as it is so expensive to host and so few countries are now submitting bids to hold it - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-46236682

Canadian Paddler
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Re: ACM Motion 6.5 Extreme Slalom Rules

Post by Canadian Paddler » Thu Nov 22, 2018 6:10 pm

Lots of individual things:
Thanks Alison, even if not linked to rules, the page of changes would be useful, although in Extreme Slalom the time trial is timed with beams.

At ICF Level Slalom has taken on what was going to be Slalom X but became Extreme Slalom when it went through ICF Congress.

Chris: IOC has said no more athletes at the Olympics, so to bring in Polo we would have to lose enough athlete places from sprint AND slalom to make a contest viable, AND keep it global, so drop slalom completely and you could just about have a competition between a team from each continent. Not exactly thrilling. It is NOT possible to give 'a lot more' paddlers the chance to compete at the Olympics, there is a fixed number of athlete places.

Similarly there is a fixed number of medals (IOC saying not going to increase overall medal numbers). So if extreme-canoe-slalom-boater-X is to be included we need to give up other medals, and either use paddlers already competing at sprint or slalom, or give up some places from these disciplines. However IOC has said it wants to review each medal to see if it matches their brief. If we look like losing sprint medals, Extreme slalom is in a good place to offer an alternative that ticks a lot of ICF boxes and could keep the number of canoeing medal, and yes extending slalom events is easier than bringing in another discipline.

In the UK we are trying to work cross discipline, and with existing boater cross organisers to try to select some prople to give them the opportunity to compete internationally, and have the chance to be World Cup and World Champions. But these are run to ICF rules so it seems sensible to have a set of UK rules to match. Will all boater X use Slalom X rules - I doubt it, and have no problem with that, do we want to force them to do so, No, why would we?

ICF Focus on sprint is (in my opinion) down to the fact that there are more nations doing sprint than slalom. Then sprint and slalom have a larger voice than other disiplnes as (cynical I know) as beign Olympic they bring in more money.

JimW 'with the limited experience' refers to the limited experience of trying to run ICF style competitions, not the experience in running boater X.
All spelling errors are intentional and are there to show new and improved ways of spelling old words. Grammatical errors are due to too many English classes/teachers.
Old. Fat. Slow. Bad tempered. And those are my good points

Canadian Paddler
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Re: ACM Motion 6.5 Extreme Slalom Rules

Post by Canadian Paddler » Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:10 am

This was handled under article 5.9 and voted on immediately. The original motion was adopted nem com.
All spelling errors are intentional and are there to show new and improved ways of spelling old words. Grammatical errors are due to too many English classes/teachers.
Old. Fat. Slow. Bad tempered. And those are my good points

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