Vets' Points

General slalom chatter...rant about the bad, rave about the good
WindsorCC
Posts: 99
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Re: Vets' Points

Post by WindsorCC » Tue Jul 02, 2019 3:24 pm

It really is a tough one... We need to reflect the comparative difficulty of Div 1 and Div 2, make sure we maintain differentiation within Vets, and make sure any solution is long-term, not just to address challenges with specific paddlers/classes right now.

My thinking is still that a multiplier on points, not time, is the way to go. It maintains the differentiation for those racing at the top of a division (as opposed to the time modifier which ends up with all moderately fast paddlers getting the same number of points), plus allows weighting for the difficulty of the different divisions.

Paul.

djberriman
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Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:19 pm

Re: Vets' Points

Post by djberriman » Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:35 am

Personally I'm just enjoying the racing, banter and setting my own goals.

Probably the best 'solution' would be that each person putting forward a proposed change should wait until the end of the season and then run their proposal against the full results for the season and see how it affects the standings. I'd be happy to produce a csv of results to help although it will require some manual effort to work everything out. That way a clear picture can be seen of how it will work.

Dee
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Joined: Sun May 08, 2005 8:34 pm

Re: Vets' Points

Post by Dee » Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:11 am

WindsorCC wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 3:24 pm
My thinking is still that a multiplier on points, not time, is the way to go.

Paul.
Although, as has been said this adds yet another layer of complication to Simply Slalom.

The constant tweeking with our rules creates masses of edge cases and this in turn makes everything horribly complex. The result is either organisers needing a phd in maths to get everything right or automated systems that are hard to thoroughly test - yes, automated tests could be added for every edge case, but those involved have limited time! - and therefore they will be prone to error.

Doesn't effect the entry system ( :) ) but I strongly believe we should be simplifying rules not adding complexity.
Kit Washer, Entry Clerk, Chauffeur, Reluctant Organiser, Online Entry Advocate .....
Anything I post under this user is my personal opinion; I am not posting as a member of the Slalom Committee!

paddlerparent
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Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2015 3:52 pm

Re: Vets' Points

Post by paddlerparent » Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:46 am

Simplicity could be....

1. Put vets into divisions.
2. Let them paddle in any division either paddle up/paddle down/ paddle correct div.
3. Promote/demote as current divisions
3. winner of each division at end of season

This allows divisions for ability but doesn't constrain with limited number of paddlers

Simple! (it probably wont be but its should be)

Dee
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Joined: Sun May 08, 2005 8:34 pm

Re: Vets' Points

Post by Dee » Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:41 pm

paddlerparent wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:46 am
Simplicity could be....

1. Put vets into divisions.
2. Let them paddle in any division either paddle up/paddle down/ paddle correct div.
3. Promote/demote as current divisions
3. winner of each division at end of season

This allows divisions for ability but doesn't constrain with limited number of paddlers

Simple! (it probably wont be but its should be)
So how do you propose to calculate points for paddle ups/paddle downs/ or even for correct divisions. What will promotion/demotion points be.
How far up or down can a vet paddle. Sorry, but you may think it sounds simple, but I have a million and one questions. :evil:

I know vets do contribute to the sport, but too much complication becomes unreasonable. Maybe just scrap Vets altogether. You paddle in the main divisions and if you want to paddle at a different level you enter the officials competition. Now that is simple! :twisted: :twisted:
Kit Washer, Entry Clerk, Chauffeur, Reluctant Organiser, Online Entry Advocate .....
Anything I post under this user is my personal opinion; I am not posting as a member of the Slalom Committee!

djberriman
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Re: Vets' Points

Post by djberriman » Wed Jul 03, 2019 3:05 pm

I wouldn't enter as an official as I don't have time to be an official, my main priority is generally Olivia which means spending time with her on the water practicing, off the water looking after her and making sure she is on the water for her races and has safety (me) on the water. If I can help around that then I will but I can't commit to helping.

JBS
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Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 12:01 pm

Re: Vets' Points

Post by JBS » Wed Jul 03, 2019 3:17 pm

So, leave it as it is then. An imperfect system that appears to be working. It looks to me (based on no data) to be more Vets at races than previously and on the whole we seem to be enjoying it.

Alison
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Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2006 11:03 am
Location: Cheltenham

Re: Vets' Points

Post by Alison » Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:16 pm

I agree with leaving it as it is. I don't mind that I get less points when I race on a div 1 course than a div 2 course. If we start complicating the point allocation where do we stop. We're competing over 4 divisions with a 40 year age range in the K1w I can't see a simple solution to even that out.

Mike Mitchell
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Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2014 10:44 pm

Re: Vets' Points

Post by Mike Mitchell » Sun Jul 07, 2019 9:24 pm

I agree leave it as it is.
if you look back 4 years ago there was hardly any Vets and now there are Bid 60s.
So the changes have worked and everyone is enjoying it, so much I am going to join you next year.

If it keeps increasing like this we are going to end up having a stand alone event.

But I an going to miss this post if we can't keep on debating it :lol:

Dee
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Re: Vets' Points

Post by Dee » Sun Jul 07, 2019 9:43 pm

It’s Vets. I’m sure you will think of something else to debate
Kit Washer, Entry Clerk, Chauffeur, Reluctant Organiser, Online Entry Advocate .....
Anything I post under this user is my personal opinion; I am not posting as a member of the Slalom Committee!

JimW
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Location: Pinkston

Re: Vets' Points

Post by JimW » Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:35 am

Dee wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 9:43 pm
It’s Vets. I’m sure you will think of something else to debate
Well, there is always the suggestion of the time-out eddy, where vets can break out and pause the clock for a bit before carrying on :D

The main contention with this idea is whether we should be served tea, coffee or G&T whilst in the the time-out eddy...

Dee
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Re: Vets' Points

Post by Dee » Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:38 am

:lol: :lol: :lol:
Kit Washer, Entry Clerk, Chauffeur, Reluctant Organiser, Online Entry Advocate .....
Anything I post under this user is my personal opinion; I am not posting as a member of the Slalom Committee!

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Jeff
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Re: Vets' Points

Post by Jeff » Mon Jul 08, 2019 1:03 pm

That's a brilliant idea JimW, you could have a gate with a big letter 'T' above it which stops the Timer clock, going through the next gate restarts it!

djberriman
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Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:19 pm

Re: Vets' Points

Post by djberriman » Tue Jul 09, 2019 9:39 am

Have to be a big eddy could be there a while

Nigel
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Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2015 7:16 pm

Re: Vets' Points

Post by Nigel » Tue Jul 09, 2019 4:15 pm

Well as promised in an earlier post, I dipped my toe (and most of my body :shock: !!!!) last weekend in the HPP Div1, first ever div1 for me. I actually did get some points......15.... now my little lad and eldest lad also ran the Div1 as officials, youngest would have had 118 points and eldest 44 points, in simple terms this means Dad is doomed when they do get promoted :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

What I got the most, was a great weekend with great paddlers, and that suits me just fine.

Paddles up folks, see you out there.

Nigel

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