Points calculations with DNFs

General slalom chatter...rant about the bad, rave about the good
Jasper
Posts: 41
Joined: Mon May 21, 2012 12:44 pm

Re: Points calculations with DNFs

Post by Jasper » Thu Jun 06, 2019 5:08 am

While that is true on the Sunday Dee that same C1M Paddler came 12th / 22 on the Saturday so more than half of the class would get extra ranking points if they were recalculated with him being included in the calculations.

IyaMaper
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:05 pm

Re: Points calculations with DNFs

Post by IyaMaper » Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:31 am

Jasper wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 5:08 am
While that is true on the Sunday Dee that same C1M Paddler came 12th / 22 on the Saturday so more than half of the class would get extra ranking points if they were recalculated with him being included in the calculations.
And on the Saturday C1W, all except the winner would have got more ranking points if the DNF had been included...

CeeBee
Posts: 281
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:12 pm
Location: Falkirk

Re: Points calculations with DNFs

Post by CeeBee » Thu Jun 06, 2019 3:46 pm

For the race I am down as an administrator for, I've found some paddlers do let you know they have been promoted and ask for their entry to be cancelled but for most, we are just using the manage promotion button which cancels them if they can no longer race and refunds any entry fees due or offers them a place from the waiting list so they can then complete payment details.

If you are an organiser, you appreciate the whole end to end entry process and what to do to cancel and modify entries. Most people only get promoted a few times and so are unlikely to be completely aware of the process and what goes on behind the scenes, so think an e-mail to promoted paddlers congratulating them on promotion and advising them of the entries they need to get changed would be a good step (sorry for adding work Dee :D )

The organiser could also be e-mailed about promotions either all promotions or just those promoted within say 2 weeks of their competition.

harratts
Posts: 113
Joined: Fri May 18, 2012 3:51 pm

Re: Points calculations with DNFs

Post by harratts » Fri Jun 07, 2019 5:31 am

It has just dawned on me that the C1M Paddler who (to date) has been treated as being a Paddle Up entrant in both races at the Tryweryn last weekend is the one who has gained the most from this situation.

On Saturday they would have finished 12th / 21 but have currently been awarded the same amount of ranking points as the Host Paddler who finished in 11th place due to being slotted in.

On Sunday they would have finished 4th / 22 but have currently been awarded the same amount of ranking points as the Paddler who finished in 3rd place due to being slotted in.

This is as good as reason as any why the ranking points for the whole C1M class from both days should be corrected as a matter of course. Why would it be acceptable for everyone to accept that an error was made and not correct it accordingly by just running Simply Slalom again which is not a massive task.

Steve

Dee
Posts: 1267
Joined: Sun May 08, 2005 8:34 pm

Re: Points calculations with DNFs

Post by Dee » Fri Jun 07, 2019 10:17 am

harratts wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 5:31 am
... by just running Simply Slalom again which is not a massive task.
I don’t know whether to laugh or cry.
  • Reloading output from timing system to the current version of Simply Slalom may be doable; I’m not sure whether original data is retained though
  • data then has to be reloaded to ranking database, taking care to remove previously allocated points
  • promotions and bib allocations resulting from previous allocations of points need to be rescinded
  • entries made against new bib numbers need to be undone including any processing where an entry was as paddle up, has been changed to host and now needs to go back to PU
  • place offers to waiting list paddlers based on ranking (and therefore points) may also need reviewing
...etc, etc

I appreciate that not all of these will apply but they all have to be checked, so not exactly just a case of rerunning Simply Slalom!

That aside. The rules were changed at the ACM a few years back to make results and points on the day final. This was so that paddlers knew where they stood prior to the next weekend. For that reason, I do not think that we should rerun all the calculations.

That said, I’m inclined to agree that the PU who failed to notify the organiser should have points adjusted (particularly as Sunday’s points could be high enough to count towards a promotion). (But please note that is a personal opinion!)

If you think that circumstances like these should require a wholesale recalc then maybe a proposal to ACM would be appropriate? However, it would need to be carefully thought through for it to be workable and, at the very least, time limited.
Kit Washer, Entry Clerk, Chauffeur, Reluctant Organiser, Online Entry Advocate .....
Anything I post under this user is my personal opinion; I am not posting as a member of the Slalom Committee!

Nick Penfold
Posts: 322
Joined: Thu May 27, 2004 8:21 pm

Re: Points calculations with DNFs

Post by Nick Penfold » Sat Jun 08, 2019 6:00 pm

For everybody's information
  • Saturday's C1W points have been revised to count the DNF paddler into the calculation.
  • C1M points remain as originally calculated.

Mike Mitchell
Posts: 92
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2014 10:44 pm

Re: Points calculations with DNFs

Post by Mike Mitchell » Sat Jun 08, 2019 6:28 pm

I agree with Steve on this.

There is an obvious mistake and it just needs correcting.

2nd place would get something like 3 additional point. In a class where promotion it always tight this could make a difference at the end of season.
I personal will get less points, but the correct points I should have received.

It can't be that hard to adjust 21 paddlers point.
As a Builder and before computers we would have done it on the back of a fag packet. :lol:

Pleased the C1 Ladies has been corrected.

As for the disqualified K1 man, it could be a consideration in future to put his result in but suspend his points.
After all he started against the rest of the paddlers?

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