Vets - New Points System Please
Posted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:32 pm
The Veteran’s Division Points System isn’t working.
We must revise the Vets points system. My suggestion is:
Prem – divisional points x 4
Div 1 – divisional points x 2
Div 2, Div 3 - no change.
I am open to other suggestions so long as they truly reflect the difficulty for a Veteran to earn points in Div 1 and how exponentially tougher it is in Prem.
This chat is about Vets Men’s K1.
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I’m all in favour of one vets division. It's more fun and more people are paddling together and turning up at races. However the points system isn’t working. The best paddlers are not getting the most points – unless they race in lower division slaloms where points are much easier to come by. More points are awarded for going to lower division races. This runs counter to the fundamental principle of this being a competitive sport.
The current vets points system is not fit for purpose. If you want to score more points it is best to race at Div 2 events where there is every probability of picking up significantly more points than at Div 1 or Prem races. Not something I want to do. I enjoy the challenge of the tougher courses and higher standard of competition.
The step in difficulty, standard, skill, strength and speed of competition from Div 2 to Div1 is substantial. And the step to Premier is even greater. It is much harder to get points at Div 1 races and exponentially tougher at Prem. The gap between Prem and Div 1 is huge.
I am sure Nick Penfold could pull together examples from data on the Slalom UK website. Taking myself as an example I have outlined some of my results for 2018 and 2019 below to illustrate my point.
These are my points at Lee Valley 15/ 16 September 2018:
· British open Prem - Olympic course Saturday - 152 points - I was the only vet to take it on.
· Div 2 - Legacy course Sunday - 500 points.
I paddled at the same standard on both days. Yet I got less than a third of the points for racing on the Olympic against Prem paddlers who are much much faster on much tougher water and harder gates. How can this miss match be sustainable? There are loads of other examples. It’s nearly as bad at Div 1 races.
· (Incidentally I got my next highest points at Shepperton Div 2 double 417 & 474 points. The water literally was completely flat - like paddling on a canal).
It’s been a similar story in 2019:
· British Open Prem Olympic course 1st vet 172 points. I got a clear run on a very tough course. It was easily my best performance of the season. Yet these points weren’t even enough to count towards my end of season total!
· Legacy loop Div 2 same weekend: 2nd vet 390 points - my season’s highest points score for a very second rate run when my focus was on racing the British Open.
· I also raced in a number of Div. 1’s in 2019 scoring 239, 261, 279, 288 and 356 points. More than at the Open but much less than the Div 2.
I have paddled Vet for years and even won it a few times. And it is for me a way of keeping paddling without the stress of having to score points to stay in the Division. And I fully understand those who do it just for fun. So do I. I love being able to race anywhere I like. And it motivates me to keep fit. Plus of course the excellent company!
It is non the less dispiriting and unfair and contrary to the principles of competition to end up with fewer points for competing at the tougher events racing against stiffer competition.
The ageing process is inevitable and past a certain point, despite having skill and experience, one simply does not have the raw speed, strength, reflexes or flexibility and agility to race on equal terms in the top divisions – and hence have access to the theoretically possible higher points totals available in the top divisions.
I am also aware of a number of really good Div 1 and Prem paddlers who might be persuaded to declare Veteran and thus prolong their competitive paddling career. And who are well placed to put something back into the sport. However, as things stand with the current points system, I can’t see them wanting to make the step.
There is also no incentive for Vets to challenge themselves by racing in the higher divisions.
We must revise the Vets points system. My suggestion is:
Prem – divisional points x 4
Div 1 – divisional points x 2
Div 2, Div 3 - no change.
I am open to other suggestions so long as they truly reflect the difficulty for a veteran paddler to earn points in Div 1 and how exponentially tougher it is in Prem.
If this doesn’t change, Vets division will not attract Div 1 and Prem paddlers when they eventually get past their prime. These older paddlers will be lost to the sport. If they have racing in their blood there is nowhere for them to go. Paddlers may well be slowing down as they get older but they still want to be able to race on the toughest courses and be incentivised to train. Racing in the lower divisions just does not do the trick.
About a dozen UK veteran and masters paddlers raced in the European Masters Games in Ivrea this summer. A fantastic experience against tough competition. There is clearly a thriving masters and veteran’s competitive scene in Europe. The UK should have the same. If British Canoeing wants to grow membership and continue to grow slalom this is an opportunity to enable older members to prolong their competitive careers and stay in the sport.
Vets men’s K1 points must change. I’ve suggested an alternative. If you have a better idea please keep it simple and workable. If not please support this idea.
Bob
We must revise the Vets points system. My suggestion is:
Prem – divisional points x 4
Div 1 – divisional points x 2
Div 2, Div 3 - no change.
I am open to other suggestions so long as they truly reflect the difficulty for a Veteran to earn points in Div 1 and how exponentially tougher it is in Prem.
This chat is about Vets Men’s K1.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I’m all in favour of one vets division. It's more fun and more people are paddling together and turning up at races. However the points system isn’t working. The best paddlers are not getting the most points – unless they race in lower division slaloms where points are much easier to come by. More points are awarded for going to lower division races. This runs counter to the fundamental principle of this being a competitive sport.
The current vets points system is not fit for purpose. If you want to score more points it is best to race at Div 2 events where there is every probability of picking up significantly more points than at Div 1 or Prem races. Not something I want to do. I enjoy the challenge of the tougher courses and higher standard of competition.
The step in difficulty, standard, skill, strength and speed of competition from Div 2 to Div1 is substantial. And the step to Premier is even greater. It is much harder to get points at Div 1 races and exponentially tougher at Prem. The gap between Prem and Div 1 is huge.
I am sure Nick Penfold could pull together examples from data on the Slalom UK website. Taking myself as an example I have outlined some of my results for 2018 and 2019 below to illustrate my point.
These are my points at Lee Valley 15/ 16 September 2018:
· British open Prem - Olympic course Saturday - 152 points - I was the only vet to take it on.
· Div 2 - Legacy course Sunday - 500 points.
I paddled at the same standard on both days. Yet I got less than a third of the points for racing on the Olympic against Prem paddlers who are much much faster on much tougher water and harder gates. How can this miss match be sustainable? There are loads of other examples. It’s nearly as bad at Div 1 races.
· (Incidentally I got my next highest points at Shepperton Div 2 double 417 & 474 points. The water literally was completely flat - like paddling on a canal).
It’s been a similar story in 2019:
· British Open Prem Olympic course 1st vet 172 points. I got a clear run on a very tough course. It was easily my best performance of the season. Yet these points weren’t even enough to count towards my end of season total!
· Legacy loop Div 2 same weekend: 2nd vet 390 points - my season’s highest points score for a very second rate run when my focus was on racing the British Open.
· I also raced in a number of Div. 1’s in 2019 scoring 239, 261, 279, 288 and 356 points. More than at the Open but much less than the Div 2.
I have paddled Vet for years and even won it a few times. And it is for me a way of keeping paddling without the stress of having to score points to stay in the Division. And I fully understand those who do it just for fun. So do I. I love being able to race anywhere I like. And it motivates me to keep fit. Plus of course the excellent company!
It is non the less dispiriting and unfair and contrary to the principles of competition to end up with fewer points for competing at the tougher events racing against stiffer competition.
The ageing process is inevitable and past a certain point, despite having skill and experience, one simply does not have the raw speed, strength, reflexes or flexibility and agility to race on equal terms in the top divisions – and hence have access to the theoretically possible higher points totals available in the top divisions.
I am also aware of a number of really good Div 1 and Prem paddlers who might be persuaded to declare Veteran and thus prolong their competitive paddling career. And who are well placed to put something back into the sport. However, as things stand with the current points system, I can’t see them wanting to make the step.
There is also no incentive for Vets to challenge themselves by racing in the higher divisions.
We must revise the Vets points system. My suggestion is:
Prem – divisional points x 4
Div 1 – divisional points x 2
Div 2, Div 3 - no change.
I am open to other suggestions so long as they truly reflect the difficulty for a veteran paddler to earn points in Div 1 and how exponentially tougher it is in Prem.
If this doesn’t change, Vets division will not attract Div 1 and Prem paddlers when they eventually get past their prime. These older paddlers will be lost to the sport. If they have racing in their blood there is nowhere for them to go. Paddlers may well be slowing down as they get older but they still want to be able to race on the toughest courses and be incentivised to train. Racing in the lower divisions just does not do the trick.
About a dozen UK veteran and masters paddlers raced in the European Masters Games in Ivrea this summer. A fantastic experience against tough competition. There is clearly a thriving masters and veteran’s competitive scene in Europe. The UK should have the same. If British Canoeing wants to grow membership and continue to grow slalom this is an opportunity to enable older members to prolong their competitive careers and stay in the sport.
Vets men’s K1 points must change. I’ve suggested an alternative. If you have a better idea please keep it simple and workable. If not please support this idea.
Bob