Back to Slaloms

General slalom chatter...rant about the bad, rave about the good
Mike Mitchell
Posts: 180
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2014 10:44 pm

Back to Slaloms

Post by Mike Mitchell » Mon Aug 31, 2020 9:14 pm

We need to start somewhere.
If other sports can get up and running there must be a way to Start Slalom competitions.
So Internationals and Prem races are going to be hard to run safely, so lets start at the bottom.
In my opinion there is No reason we can't run Div 4 Slaloms.
Remember there is No 2 year season for a Div 4 as they haven't started in Slalom yet.

Max entry 30. Everyone gets a start time for practice and Back to Back runs.
One person with a stopwatch, walks along the course collecting any penalties and then results could be published online.
At somewhere like Stafford and Stone or Llandysul what could be more simple.

This will just get any new paddlers onto the Ranking system.

Then we could look at a similar system for Div 3. Max 60 entries. 30 in the morning and 30 in the afternoon.

WindsorCC
Posts: 113
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2016 8:22 pm

Re: Back to Slaloms

Post by WindsorCC » Tue Sep 01, 2020 2:04 pm

I'd agree Mike that it'll be a lot easier to be running Div 3 and Div 4 races, no need for the level of complexity involved in Div 2/1/P and lower expectations around speed of results etc.

I do appreciate that we all want to be racing again at the top end, but I can't see why we need to hold up the lower divisions which don't have the same requirements for timing, judging, depth/quality of field etc?

There are quite a few sites that could run a short-course div 4, or div 3 with stopwatch timing and either a single judge, or a small team of judges with no comms back to control. We ran slaloms for many years with judging sheets making it back to control by hand.

Even next year there might need to be some management of expectations for higher divisions around live results. It's great to have results up by the time you walk back to the top of the course (or quicker for those with online results), but I'd take having to wait a couple of hours for first run results over not having racing at all, as long as they are available before second runs.

Many div 4 races struggle to get 30 entries, and many div 3's struggle to get 60, so limiting numbers shouldn't cause major issues.

Mark H
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2013 8:09 am

Re: Back to Slaloms

Post by Mark H » Tue Sep 01, 2020 5:29 pm

I am pleased that there is some movement on the race front.
Aren't div fours counted as ranking races?
Ranking races have been stood down for this year by the Slalom committee.
It would be good to get some clarity around this.
Don't get me wrong I am all for racing at all levels, it may be difficult but not impossible.

Is the British open going to run this year? This is a question I posed a few weeks ago with no real response.

Dee
Posts: 1444
Joined: Sun May 08, 2005 8:34 pm

Re: Back to Slaloms

Post by Dee » Tue Sep 01, 2020 5:46 pm

British Open is highly unlikely to run, so assume no. :(

Div 4s are not strictly ranking races in that paddlers are not ranked and do not get given points. They are however, the path into the ranking system and as such they are a grey area.

Div 3s are true ranking races and therefore already been discounted for this year.
Kit Washer, Entry Clerk, Chauffeur, Reluctant Organiser, Online Entry Advocate .....
Anything I post under this user is my personal opinion; I am not posting as a member of the Slalom Committee!

JimW
Posts: 570
Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 2:17 pm
Location: Pinkston

Re: Back to Slaloms

Post by JimW » Tue Sep 01, 2020 10:06 pm

Several clubs did ask the committee to review the position regarding div 4 a few months ago, but as Dee mentions although not actually ranking, they do have promotion, and at the moment it is not clear what we would be promoting paddlers for since the rankng system is currently on hold.

I think it would be better to use Mike's suggestions, but rather than div 4 or 3 look at club races, or open races, perhaps using a handicap system like the Stone Mini's to allow small numbers from across the divisions to participate. Competition is integral to slalom and I agree we need to try to find ways to get back into competition because ultimately, despite nerves etc. that is the fun part of the sport so lets concentrate on maximum fun with permitted participation levels (and minimal travel).

JimW
Posts: 570
Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 2:17 pm
Location: Pinkston

Re: Back to Slaloms

Post by JimW » Tue Sep 01, 2020 10:25 pm

Also a thought regarding live results - the issue here is to stop people crowding around a few screens, but the results system is basically a local web server and several of us have worked out how to make a local wifi network (with guidance from Dave Spencer and Duncan Berriman) so that paddlers can access results on their own smart phones and tablets.
Is it reasonable to assume that all paddlers have a device that they could access live results by wifi if organisers just set up a wifi webserver but no displays for people to congregate around?

I know that a few high level races are actually made live on the internet, I have made several races available on local wifi networks although that confuses some people who can't understand why they can't access the internet from our local network. The great thing about a local wifi network is that you can set it up in a field where neither competitors nor organisers have any way to access the internet, mobile or wired. The Scottish Tutti package already includes a wifi router than can be used for this without requiring the organiser to provide extra equipment. I know I was writing some instructions for Ken on how to do it but I have no idea now if I finished fleshing them out...

paddlerparent
Posts: 95
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2015 3:52 pm

Re: Back to Slaloms

Post by paddlerparent » Wed Sep 02, 2020 12:19 pm

On the slalom welcome page it suggests an update end August, ive not seen anything

I'm keen to understand the blockers for racing to commence so people can support to unblock them!


NOTE - specific blockers not just general there is a risk!

Mark H
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2013 8:09 am

Re: Back to Slaloms

Post by Mark H » Wed Sep 02, 2020 6:26 pm

England v Barbarians: 20,000 fans could attend Twickenham clash https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/53997289

paddlerparent
Posts: 95
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2015 3:52 pm

Re: Back to Slaloms

Post by paddlerparent » Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:46 am

Mark H wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 6:26 pm
England v Barbarians: 20,000 fans could attend Twickenham clash https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/53997289
Exactly my point - i suppose as a parent i'm keen to get back to watching some racing. If it cant happen this month then when can it happen & to my point what needs to happen to get to racing? (safely)

paddlerparent
Posts: 95
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2015 3:52 pm

Re: Back to Slaloms

Post by paddlerparent » Thu Sep 03, 2020 2:42 pm

So there is guidance for rafting then

https://www.britishcanoeing.org.uk/news ... ing-racing

BaldockBabe
Posts: 307
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2012 8:55 am

Re: Back to Slaloms

Post by BaldockBabe » Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:23 pm

I don't think there is anything stopping anyone from running an open event if they want to do so (so no blockers). It just takes a club with a venue to do so.

Dee
Posts: 1444
Joined: Sun May 08, 2005 8:34 pm

Re: Back to Slaloms

Post by Dee » Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:47 pm

Scots squads are planning on running Scots champs at Pinkston by giving groups of paddlers slots to turn up so that they have less than 30 people on site at any one time. I think Welsh paddlers may be planning something similar.

So non ranking comps can be run. It needs a club with a venue and organisers willing to put in the extra effort to make it safe.
Kit Washer, Entry Clerk, Chauffeur, Reluctant Organiser, Online Entry Advocate .....
Anything I post under this user is my personal opinion; I am not posting as a member of the Slalom Committee!

PeterC
Posts: 236
Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 12:14 am
Location: Fife Scotland

Re: Back to Slaloms

Post by PeterC » Sat Sep 05, 2020 2:32 pm

As has been noted there is no bar to clubs organising events with up to 30 present provided all relevant precautions are taken. Events over 30 require to comply fully with Health and Safety COVID Secure requirements. If they don't the organiser could find themselves financially responsible. It is not easy in Slalom where the event is in practical terms over a fairly small area. We are trying to run the Scottish Champs with around 50 paddlers "competing" however it has had to undergo much change from a traditional format. Hopefully if clubs will organise events and share the learning, as we will with the Scottish Champs, then it will make it easier to progress on to bigger races early next year.

At the present time in the UK case numbers are not at a level which we might have hoped for going into the Autumn and we need to manage our activities responsibly and accordingly. Many across the North of England in and 20% of Scotland are currently restricted in respect of their activities as a result of the rising levels of infection.

There are a number of activities that are proceeding without complying with the rules and should not be taken to mean that everyone else can do the same. Some are compliant but the challenges they face are often very different to that for Slalom.

We should also remember that Slalom races at Div 2 and above create a great deal of social mixing from across the UK which is far from desirable in Public Health Terms and we all want to meet and socialise again. We have all had enough isolation thank you very much but the more activity that goes on pushing or indeed breaking the boundaries of what should the longer it is going to take us to get back to normality.

Dee
Posts: 1444
Joined: Sun May 08, 2005 8:34 pm

Re: Back to Slaloms

Post by Dee » Sun Sep 06, 2020 5:43 pm

Scottish Champs is open for entries at https://www.canoeslalomentries.co.uk/ye ... ish-champs
Kit Washer, Entry Clerk, Chauffeur, Reluctant Organiser, Online Entry Advocate .....
Anything I post under this user is my personal opinion; I am not posting as a member of the Slalom Committee!

djberriman
Posts: 806
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:19 pm

Re: Back to Slaloms

Post by djberriman » Mon Sep 07, 2020 6:59 pm

Getting back to racing isn't easy, div 4 level perhaps div 3 not so bad but above that except possibly for some turn up and play courses there are lots of issues to solve which I'm sure organisers continue to scratch their heads over.

Entries (limited)
Runs (Probably back to back, multi class paddlers)
Safety (More required, paddlers probably can't do it)
One way systems
Catering (or lack of thus loss making races)
Toilets (or lack of as can't meet standards)
Control (need very big tent and all day volunteers)
Judges (cleaning equipment or all day judging)
Rest breaks for Volunteers (affecting runs and numbers)
Parking and managing traffic flow/numbers on site
Writing the risk assessment and enforcing it
Paddlers following the rules
No practice
Limited or no time for a course walk
Spectators/Coaches/Parents
Building courses (and worse taking them down)

Post Reply