Back to Slaloms

[JohnMac]

Come on guys, PARK RUN is starting October ...... slalom is easier to pull together safely than Park Run!

[Jono]

In short;
Lets get back racing but accept we have to adapt and it will not be the same and probably to a lower event standard as racing before COVID. It also Probably needs to start as club level Open events.

In Long;
Yes logistically it will be a pain to organise but I strongly believe it is doable. I can’t understand why Slalom in the UK has basically written off the year whereas most other sports are working around the difficulties to make a way forward in these difficult times. Believe we are (one of) the only countries in Europe to not be back racing. Also Covid will almost certainly be around for next season so we need to accept this and work around it. At the end of the day we are an outside sport where one person competes at a time, on paper that is straight forward for social distancing. Yes we will have to adapt how we run things but people will understand this in order to get back racing.

Also I see a lot has been said about returning to races for lower divisions but not higher divisions. The ranking season has been cancelled so therefore surly every race will just be as a Open event (maybe with a stated course toughness?) where anyone can enter.I think I speak for most people, we just want to race!
For higher divisions its not going to be the same level of racing but we have to adapt and accept that races won’t be the same as previously.

Some quick fire answers to djberriman post, have not thought into them for long but feel like we can work around all of them.
Entries (limited) - maybe a cost issue for venues we have to hire. I have no understanding of how much it is to hire out courses for the weekend. But then again surly we can arrange a reduced cost as they are not making much from whitewater access at the moment. (then again SERCO for hpp and reasonable probably don’t go together)
Runs (Probably back to back, multi class paddlers) - Back to Back, I don’t see any issue with this. As i said above we need to adapt our sport for these times so just have to accept lest rest between runs.
Safety (More required, paddlers probably can't do it) - paddlers can still rescue boats but agree would need a few people on the back with throw rope and a mask on.
One way systems - some venues may struggle, but I think most venues can work around it. Would say have masks compulsory for walking around as well?
Catering (or lack of thus loss making races) - increase entry fees (not ideal but canoe slalom races still have cheap entry fees compared to lots of sports)
Toilets (or lack of as can't meet standards) - potential issue have no idea of the standards needed
Control (need very big tent and all day volunteers) - I agree, you would need committed volunteers who are happy to work all day (a lot do already at most races)
Judges (cleaning equipment or all day judging) - would say all day judging is the most straight forward but not ideal, maybe have more breaks throughout the day? Or each judge has their own equipment. Or a judge just follows a person down for the whole run?(Again not ideal but we have to adapt)
Rest breaks for Volunteers (affecting runs and numbers) - I agree but feasible to work around
Parking and managing traffic flow/numbers on site - with back to back runs in time slots think that is manageable
Writing the risk assessment and enforcing it - a pain, hope people understand that we have to do these measures in order to race. DSQ if not abiding by the rules
Paddlers following the rules - as above
No practice- Prem already do this, Adapting the sport in order to actually race.
Limited or no time for a course walk - slots for course work, videos and pictures of the course put up on FB to study before going down
Spectators/Coaches/Parents - have to limit number on site, might be harsh but is needed, have viewing areas
Building courses (and worse taking them down) - some site I understand that will be tough but others straight forward.
As I said just my quick thoughts and not the answers to everything.

My opinion is that to get the ball rolling clubs should start to hold their own mini "in house" events and we build up from there. (BAM - new debate started, we need a better club slalom system in the UK, feel free to discuss on a new thread, at the moment lets get racing back!!) So maybe the first step is the Slalom Committee issuing guidance to encourage holding small races?

[djberriman]

Jono is right, a lot of the things I outlined aren't impossible to fix, that was my short bullet points to give people things to think about.

It is however a hell of a lot to sort out which all requires extra volunteers to plan, document and manage, it will vary hugely from site to site dependent on what is in place already, if its easy to put up a course, the amount of space and car parking available and all sorts of other variables not least of which would be getting approval from whoever controls the venue to sign off on the risk assessment.

If you are willing to volunteer to help to get racing back on I suggest you contact your local race and make the usual organiser aware you are available so they don't end up trying to do everything themselves.

[JimW]

Come on guys, PARK RUN is starting October ...... slalom is easier to pull together safely than Park Run!

The big difference between park run and slalom is that park run are organising to minimise the amount of time people spend hanging around before and after the event, on the basis that during the run they will be well spread out.

The problem with the way slalom has historically been run is that we spend most of the day hanging around the site together, and then a very small amount of time warming up and competing in isolation.

Of course it is not impossible for us to change the way we do things, and one method is being trialled for the Scottish champs (although Glasgow may be locked down by then ), and some top level paddlers do most of their preparation in isolation anyway. So I would say not easier than park run, but certainly possible.

Lets not also lose sight of the principle of minimising travel outside of local areas (I know the government are not advising this, but it is fundamental to controlling epidemics), park run is everywhere, so people presumably do their local race, not one at the other end of the country?

I think we are mostly agreed that we need to try and start local non-ranking events - as a slalom organiser, I'm not actually ready to take that on myself just now, so I won't be criticising anyone else for not doing it either.

[Dee]

as a slalom organiser, I'm not actually ready to take that on myself just now, so I won't be criticising anyone else for not doing it either.

And this is perhaps the crux of the matter - ie lack of organisers willing to take this on. Our sport has always been run entirely by volunteers often putting in gi-normous efforts. Perhaps many organisers just feel that the extra precautions and risks associated with covid are just the straw that breaks the camel's back.

The team running the Virtual Scots Champs have put in a lot of effort to get things up and running. So far they have 19 entries and last entries will be on 21st September. I suspect (don't know) that they will need more entries to make the comp viable and, of course, there is still a possibility the government rulings may mean that the comp has to be cancelled at the last minute which will have meant a lot of work for nothing.

As someone who has run and sadly had to cancel races, I know that it is very disheartening when all the upfront work comes to nothing because of a last minute cancellation due to external factors. No organiser wants to go through the process of organising a race only to cancel at the last minute (even if cancellation these days is more straightforward thanks to email and the internet).

As has been said before there is nothing to stop a club setting up a race and anyone one here saying they want racing to start again can get a race in motion; but if no-one steps forward to organise one then it won't happen.

[djberriman]

Volunteers will be in short supply, particularly those with experience as many will probably be in high risk groups.

I think the current aim should be for clubs to run their own events for their club members. That is feasible and can be managed.

[PeterC]

We are still pushing on with trying to get the Virtual Scottish Championships running in October. Submission going to Sport Scotland tomorrow of how we are planning to run it for approval and confirmation that it complies with the new Scottish Rules out today. We believe it does and we are fully supported by the Scottish Canoe Association in getting that approval.

Yes as the Kit Washer says it is involving a lot of work and one should not underestimate the personal responsibility (potential financial penalty) that could result for organising an event that was not in full compliance.

Hopefully we will in a months time be able to report success...

[paddlerparent]

Well done to the Scots your certainly showing the rest of the UK how it could be done. I hope it goes well

[djberriman]

Pinkston is one of a few venues that make it possible (I believe that is where it is). It has guaranteed water (well nearly), plug and play facility, can control public access, is easy to manage safety, judging etc, has buildings were needed, a large warm up/cool down area, easy to set up one way systems, cheap to hire, good communications, plenty of space for marshalling parking etc and room in the surrounding area for waiting vehicles etc.

It will still be a hard job and the organisers are taking a lot on their shoulders, I wish them well and for a successful event.

It is however on the day that British Canoeing confirms its athletes will not compete internationally in 2020.

If you feel you can replicate it in the rest of the UK I look forward to your event.

[CeeBee]

yes the event will be held at Pinkston as it is one of the few sites in Scotland that can control public access. It has guaranteed water and is relatively affordable for a pumped course.

It is being run with paddlers being allocated to a group and this group will have an allocated time slot of so they arrive, warm up, have some timed runs and then leave before the next group does the same so this limits the numbers on site. Everything is being managed to adhere to covid-19 guidelines/laws and so is a moving target! Hopefully the time slots will be able to be long enough for paddlers to not feel pressured taking their runs as we want this to be a positive experience for all the competitors (we all know what it feels like trying to maximise training at Lee Valley when you only have an hour booked)

The same people will time and judge as they can be on the island and socially distance. We won't be using any of the buildings nor have changing facilities (we will have toilet facilities with which have enhanced cleaning). Timing will be on stop watches.

It is not perfect but the paddlers are getting excited at having some sort of race.

I suspect that this model could be used for club slaloms too so if a club had 30 paddlers wanting to train and get timed runs on a full course, they could come in say small groups with gaps between the groups to allow the first group to leave before the second group arrive to stop groups socialising.

[PeterC]

The Pandemic is unfortunately returning with some vigour and it is going to be challenging over the next few weeks.

British Canoeing has published more guidance today. I personally am concerned that clarity about what is and what is not possible or appropriate is a little lacking. An interpretation would be that anything involving more than 6 individuals must operate a fully COVID Secure process which is a challenge in our sport.

I hope we can go ahead in Scotland but am beginning to feel somewhat gloomy about whether it will be appropriate. Sadly we are not getting the October Window I had hoped we might.

Stay safe all

[djberriman]

You are not the only one slight worried about the clarity meaning local decisions have to be made, for instance between the 6 rule for coaching and being allowed to have 30 playing polo. Those who want something unfortunately point to the rules that allow things and those who are responsible (orgranisers/committees) are left to make the decisions.

[djberriman]

One such bit of vaguenous....

"Any limit on numbers will encompass all persons on site so calculations should include paddlers, coaches, officials, volunteers, venue staff, parents transporting young paddlers, etc."

[Dee]

It's all a bit vague. The sheer number of documents that could relate to any sport is confusing and the references often circular. I also suspect that organisations are interpreting the interpretations made by organisations further up the tree.

I read https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... ity-events which does sound workable, but following the various links was a bit more convoluted (and did at one point bring me back in a full circle ). Sports England publish guidance, but to me looks a bit out of date.

British Canoeing's documents https://www.britishcanoeing.org.uk/news ... in-england say that

• "events can now take place with multiple groups of no more than 6 people participating/congregating together".
• "Events can include multiple groups of 6 people providing that they are socially distanced and that the venue facilities and infrastructure can accommodate the total number on site at any time."

Of course there is a load of other stuff, but I think that even with the rule of 6, competitions run along the Pinkston lines should still be doable by many clubs in England especially those who have their own regular and free sites. It appears that you could have multiple groups of 6 on site as long as they don't interact. So basic judging and timing could be one group of 6, separate from the competitors as long as they don't come close together. Difficulty I think could be rescuers, in that, by definition they have to form part of the group of paddlers as they may come into direct contact. My interpretation would therefore be that each group would need different rescue/safety teams. However, in a club context this could mean that each group of 6 includes a couple of experienced paddlers that can provide rescue for the rest of the group as well as doing their own competitive runs. Space permitting, I think you could have more than one group of 6 competitors on site at a time as long as they are kept distinctly separate, so you could probably manage some sort of careful rotation to allow a rest between runs

All my interpretation which might well be wrong.

It does however, come back to the same point as to whether any organisers out there would be willing to take on the challenge.

[PeterC]

There is indeed a mountain of documentation some of which is contradictory. It also can change daily or occasionally even more frequently. There is also local documentation for all of the enhanced measures areas and they are not standard.

Any organiser is taking a personal risk. They need to be sure that everyone and I mean everyone, who participates will comply in full with the requirements to create a COVID Secure environment. There would need to be be no meeting up and chatting etc. Failure could result in fixed notice penalties, which for the organiser could be eye watering.

With the current rise in infections and rules likely to change one must ask what is the benefit of what is possible.

We have already seen professional sportsmen paid not insignificant amounts in Football, Rugby, F1 and Tennis all breaching their isolation rules. Are paddlers and those with them all more trustworthy?

In Scotland we had planned on groups of 8 but has been reduced to 6 and only 2 households so much more difficult...