CanoeSlalomEntries Support for Covid Slaloms

General slalom chatter...rant about the bad, rave about the good
Dee
Posts: 1444
Joined: Sun May 08, 2005 8:34 pm

CanoeSlalomEntries Support for Covid Slaloms

Post by Dee » Fri Nov 06, 2020 6:44 pm

It's not going to be easy next year!

I'm thinking about things that we might need specifically from canoeslalomentries to help with some of the red tape. I have got a couple of ideas (and questions) and am open to others.
  • Data for contact tracing. Currently the privacy policy on canoeslalomentries states “Your data, including your email address, will be shared with the organiser and may be shared with other officials within the canoe slalom community for the purposes of running the sport.“ - I intend to expand this to include submitting the data to organisations responsible for Covid contact tracing - does anyone know if an email and name is enough or do we need to collect phone numbers?
  • Waiver for additional consent required around rescue and covid - As anyone who has entered online will be aware the is a checkbox for the risk statement. I can expand the risk statement for covid. Can anyone, in the know, provide some wording
  • Non-competing attendees - I think that we may need to know who is coming with the paddlers. I obviously want to limit the work for this as it is likely (I hope) to be short lived. I have a few options:
    • We could have an additional class for Non-paddler, and a sort of pseudo non-race. Anyone attending is then required to enter this race - this would use the process used by div 4s to provide some basic details. This would allow visibility of a complete list of attendees and would be extremely easy for me to implement and remove later and a numerical limit can be set. - Possible issues: 1) It might feel a bit "odd" to the user, 2) if a paddler cancels they might forget to tell us to cancel accompanying person, 3) there would be no way of restricting number of people coming each paddler - anyone could add themselves to the list
    • We could have a pop-up box so that when entering a race the user is asked if anyone is coming with them - I have something similar set up for scottish schools and selection. This would then ask for name of that person. Easy to see who is associated with who and reasonably easy to implement. However 1) For someone entering several races it could be really, really annoying as the popup would need completing each time 2) the name of the accompanying person will appear next to the club name in extracts and start lists. I can probably prevent this but it would be more work.
    • I do absolutely nothing and organisers ask that people email them with any details and then collate manually outside of the system. This of course is an option
    My gut feel is to allow for the first option for any organisers that want it, but if anyone can suggest an way of shoe-horning an alternative into the entry process, please shout.
  • Possibility of adding online protests - To lodge a protest you would need to be logged on with the email used for entering the race. You would fill in a form, online pretty much as usual. Jury would have access to a list of protests and be able to respond and accept/reject online. Protests could be visible to anyone after accepted/rejected (a bit like being displayed in the window), so that competitor can see response. Payment would only be collected if protest was rejected. Issues:
    • It relies on paddlers being able to see detailed results online
    • It relies on an internet connection
    • If mum did the entry and mum isn't there that might be tricky (unless we let anyone protest for anyone)
    • Cost of taking the money
    • Payment failures
    • Relies on everyone having a mobile phone (is this fair or discriminatory)
    • It is a fair bit of work though not ludicrously so
    I do wonder whether there might be an easier way (outside of canoeslalomentries) that someone can come up with?
Kit Washer, Entry Clerk, Chauffeur, Reluctant Organiser, Online Entry Advocate .....
Anything I post under this user is my personal opinion; I am not posting as a member of the Slalom Committee!

Mike Mitchell
Posts: 180
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2014 10:44 pm

Re: CanoeSlalomEntries Support for Covid Slaloms

Post by Mike Mitchell » Fri Nov 06, 2020 8:53 pm

Dee

Have you looked at the NHS Scanning a QR code.
The organiser sets up a QR Code and Posts it around the event.
Everyone scans it on there Phone when they arrive.
It works out if you have been within 2 meters of someone with Covid 19 and if you have you should get a call in a few Days.
Problem is, everyone needs a smart Phone and the app loaded.
Then its not much good for paddlers as the Phone gets left in the Car, but ok when they are looking at the course.
It could be a way round spectators, without collecting all the contact information.

Protests.
Just put them up to £50.00. You won't get a lot. :lol:

Dee
Posts: 1444
Joined: Sun May 08, 2005 8:34 pm

Re: CanoeSlalomEntries Support for Covid Slaloms

Post by Dee » Fri Nov 06, 2020 9:48 pm

I have a suspicion that the organiser may be required to collect contact info and there is no way of checking that they really have scanned the code. Hard to find a place where we can even guarantee they see it. But it is worth considering as an extra.

Not sure where we stand with protest costs
Kit Washer, Entry Clerk, Chauffeur, Reluctant Organiser, Online Entry Advocate .....
Anything I post under this user is my personal opinion; I am not posting as a member of the Slalom Committee!

JimW
Posts: 570
Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 2:17 pm
Location: Pinkston

Re: CanoeSlalomEntries Support for Covid Slaloms

Post by JimW » Sat Nov 07, 2020 3:13 am

Hi Dee,
This is one of the issues that has been vexing me slightly, Your implementation of canoeslalomentries has basically allowed organising clubs to sidestep GDPR issues themselves by deferring them to your system. I really have not managed to get to the bottom of whether the now legal requirements for venues and events to collect contact information is temporarily excluded from GDPR and if not, if enough advice is being given to organisations that may previously have never had anything to do with personal data, on how/what they need to be doing to comply. But as far a I can tell we are in a position where either it will be possible to use canoeslalomentries to manage all that data consistently, and I presume compliantly although I realise you are probably some way from beign able to understand what that is going to entail, or all organisers are going to have to become a lot more familiar with good data protection practices than most of us are just now.

Talking with Peter last night I'm sure one of the things I took away that I hadn't been entirely aware of previously is that it is already mandatory for events to submit their contact lists (I'm not sure to whom, local health authority?). Also that there is currently, and will continue to be a hard cap on the total number of people that can access an event site in a day, and that the lists are the first port of call to check if we have stayed within the limits. Currently the limit is 200, and the default limit for most slaloms is 200, but the 200 has to include all of the officials, and non-paddlers accessing the site. I think Even if I limit my event to 120 entries, by the time I have included enough volunteers to run the event, and centre staff that will have to be present, and made an allowance for other clubs to access storage during the event, I would basically need to exclude all non-paddlers (unless they have volunteered as officials) from entering the event site. Hopefully the 200 will have been changed before my event, but even so this creates a number of knock ons. We would have a large number of under 18's on site without a parent or guardian to supervise them (which is going to challenge my normal RA) which may lead to increased welfare concerns. We are going to need to ask under 18's to cross a road carrying all their kit, which I don't like much. We are going to need someone to marshall the entrance to ensure no-one that hasn't been pre-authorised to enter, enters, and we will need them all day, not just a parking marshall for an hour or 2 until everyone is 'in'. There is a chance that they may encounter someone abusive - I would hope not parents, but it could be passersby wanting to come in and see what is going on, so should I put 2 marshalls for their own safety?

So for me it would be really useful if you could extend canoeslalomentries to include collection of necessary covid related contact details (noting that these may vary accross the devolved nations), and I for one would be most grateful if you could do that.

As regards collecting non-paddlers details, yes I beleive this will also be essential, but I would want to have control over who can enter their details into that section. In the first instance I need to make sure that all the officials I need to run the race and manage the site are able to be recorded in the system, so I can't just have a free for all where the first parents to sign up use all the slots and leave me unable to run a race. In fact, considering that there may on occasion be someone who has a particular special need to have a parent present, I think it would be useful if there was some mechanism that parents could contact the organiser explaining their good reason for needing a non-paddler to access the site, that I could then allocate them a place so they can fill their details in. All of which is starting to sound quite complex to me!

The rescue situation is also something I had considered, although not by means of a waiver. My intention was to make sure paddlers are aware when entering that as long as they are in no particular difficulty, if they come out of their boat they will be expected to swim around to the egress steps and sort themselves out (obviously not every venue has such an option, and even though HPP does, it is a hell of a long way to swim - don't ask me how I know or if the first ever NSR was part of it!). At the same time I thought perhaps I could brief my safety team to try to communicate with swimmers and confirm they did not want rescuing, and where communication was not possible to assume that they do, and in the event of any life threatening problem (such as entrapment) not to waste time trying to ask but just to go into action right away. Again this is venue specific, my safety team can follow each competitor at never more than about 8m away so they should be able to communicate, it would not be a possibility on a somewhere like Grandtully... In reality a rescue is not going to involve under 2m proximity for 15 minutes so the passing contact should be OK. First aid is entirely another matter, and I am aiming to enlist the help of various NHS workers in the club to work out how best to deal with something like that, and hopefully one of them would be available on the day to do the first aid role, but need to plan as if not.

Online protests
I think there is a whole lot more to be resolved before these even become a consideration!
Current rules, and I think these are whole GB but maybe not, prohibit publishing of results at and during an event. We are going to be limited by numbers that can be on site at any one time, so realisically we are likely to have to run paddlers in small batches - batch sizes are not going to coincide with class sizes so we are not going to be likely to have all the results for a class available to publish before the end of the event anyway.
So when does protest time start and finish? The idea of the rule is that competitors will be well away from an event site before they can access results, to avoid people congragating around results displays, but all paddlers have different journeys to get to their accommodation before they will be able to check the results. So there will be no results until well after the event, even if we can waive the 15 minute window for submitting protests to make it more fair, all of the judges and jury and time keepers will have left the site before the protests are in, so how are the jury going to co-ordinate researching protests and checking backup times etc.? Are the judges going to be able to remember if the whole process ends up taking place the following day?
I think we really need to look into whether or not protests are even feasible under Covid conditions, bearing in mind they are an essential part of governance to ensure fair play...

Taking another step back, we have been trying to think about how we can run slalom control maintaining physical distancing for the timekeepers and clerks. For div 2 and below we are still scoring on cards which are passed from starter, to clerk, to clerk to finisher (although often start and finish will be the same person), and then onto someone who transfers the results to the scoring program (simply slalom) which means they have to sit close together and be able to pass cards around. One possible mitigation which we have suggested, is to just have a timekeeper in control, and to have the judges keep all of their judging sheets to be handed in after the session, and then entered into the scoring program later on (with I assume a lot of handwashing between sheets). Are we going to do this on the day, or are we going to save on a volunteer on site, and have someone (99% likely to the organiser, i.e. me) do that at home after the event. If we do that, it could be days before we get results out, even assuming it is possible for the judges to keep all of their sheets safe and dry and not rained on, or blown into the river, and of course they would need to be legible for a 3rd party... I have seen plenty of judging sheets, this would be a really horrible way to do things!

Another problem that may have been overlooked is that simply slalom at present only lists your time and total penalties, it does not give a breakdown of which gates the penalties were incurred at tlike the div 1/P system - we normally get that by checking the cards at control. So if we have to publish results after the event and allow protests agaisnt them, we need the scoring software to be modified so that people can see where they picked up the penalties.

In fact a far better solution to the whole clerking situation would be if someone could design an implement a scoring system similar to the div 1/P system, but which the judges could access course-side from tablets or smart phones to input the penalties to the software as they go, maybe even type in the notes in the breaks between sessions (not between competitors obviously, that is hard enough by shorthand!). I guess if the device has a mic, an option to record an audio note might help - quicker than writing and the jury could play it back instead of asking the judge to remember. That all seems like a pretty big ask to me, especially if it is considered that the tablets should become part of the tutti kit rather than expecting judges to bring their own suitable device to install an app onto.

Sorry that this has become quite long winded, but wherever I see a problem, I also try to present one or more possible solutions, the problem of course is that my solutions are based on the event I hope to be able to run, and might only work at my venue, and might only work for some divisions, so we all need to be thinking about this, and thinking how it could be made to work at our own venue/event, but we also need to break the silence and start talking about it so we can collaborate on better solutions.

Dee
Posts: 1444
Joined: Sun May 08, 2005 8:34 pm

Re: CanoeSlalomEntries Support for Covid Slaloms

Post by Dee » Sat Nov 07, 2020 12:40 pm

JimW wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 3:13 am
Your implementation of canoeslalomentries has basically allowed organising clubs to sidestep GDPR issues
For clarity, canoeslalomentries does not exempt organising clubs from their own GDPR responsibilities, but it should help them to restrict access to data that is not on the startlist, such as emails rather than having them "floating" around the site on the backs of score cards.

I think that "Public Health" exemptions would probably enable us to hand over data for track and trace, but I will just specifically cover in privacy notice for extra clarity.
JimW wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 3:13 am
necessary covid related contact details (noting that these may vary across the devolved nations)
According to government website we need name, contact phone number or email address if phone number is not available, date of visit, arrival time and where possible departure time. Does anyone know if Scotland is different?

We have name and email, date of visit, it should be possible to derive an arrival time from the start list and to a degree the departure time as well.The issue is phone numbers - these could possibly be collected via the BC membership data - Duncan might know if he happens to read this, but that won't handle non-members so is still limited. I will see if I can think of a way of collecting them for this year that is not too onerous and can be easily taken out when it's all over.

If is, as Mike suggested possible to display a QR code https://www.gov.uk/create-coronavirus-qr-poster - I suspect that commercial venues will already be doing this, but for other venues I think I would do this too as a relatively easy belt and braces.
JimW wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 3:13 am
Talking with Peter last night I'm sure one of the things I took away that I hadn't been entirely aware of previously is that it is already mandatory for events to submit their contact lists (I'm not sure to whom, local health authority?).
According to https://www.gov.uk/guidance/maintaining ... -and-trace we only need to hand over the data when requested by Track and Trace?
JimW wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 3:13 am
Also that there is currently, and will continue to be a hard cap on the total number of people that can access an event site in a day ... Currently the limit is 200
I wonder if that varies across nations/sites - We've been told Lee Valley are permitted up to 500 on site - if they think they are getting close to the number they just close the gates. As it is a public venue we can't refuse entry, but will be responsible for those there because of the competition so will need names and numbers

JimW wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 3:13 am
As regards collecting non-paddlers details, yes I believe this will also be essential, but I would want to have control over who can enter their details into that section. In the first instance I need to make sure that all the officials I need to run the race and manage the site are able to be recorded in the system, so I can't just have a free for all ... it would be useful if there was some mechanism that parents could contact the organiser explaining their good reason for needing a non-paddler to access the site

If I go down my preferred route you can set a limit on those that can enter as non-paddling attendees. You could set this relatively low to allow yourself headroom. Once full (and it you wanted to you could mark as full from the outset), they would go onto waiting list and you could then pick and choose who you wanted to offer a space to (you can also remove people from the list by cancelling their entry). Possibly a bit cumbersome, but makes use of existing functionality so should work.

I think that the plea mechanism will need to be by email and you use that when allocating places.

For Div 1/Prem I would expect Andy to keep the list of section judges/timing team officials at each competition and supply numbers in the first instance and details only if/when required. Will need to check this!
Kit Washer, Entry Clerk, Chauffeur, Reluctant Organiser, Online Entry Advocate .....
Anything I post under this user is my personal opinion; I am not posting as a member of the Slalom Committee!

Dee
Posts: 1444
Joined: Sun May 08, 2005 8:34 pm

Re: CanoeSlalomEntries Support for Covid Slaloms

Post by Dee » Sat Nov 07, 2020 12:49 pm

JimW wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 3:13 am
.. For div 2 and below we are still scoring on cards ...
Not something online entry is going to be able to help with, but ...

If your control area is big enough or you can find two volunteers from the same household:
- time keeper in control keeps list of times
- clerk collects penalties as per usual onto the cards
- you (or some other poor soul) collects and enters them up later.

OR
put barriers up between volunteer positions and then use a sloping shute (eg constructed with lengths of guttering) to post the cards from one position to the next.

Upload the results to dropbox for paddlers to view at the end of each class.

OR maybe

If internet access available in control then you could use a googleSheets for clerk to enter penalties (rather than putting on a card) and timekeeper to enter times and share the spreadsheet with paddlers (as viewers). Google sheets is happy for more than one person to be updating at a time, so this would allow people to be well spread out.

You'd probably still want to transfer the data to SS later to get points calculated etc, but it would enable paddlers to see results on their phones and you could probably do a fair bit of cutting and pasting later.

FYI - if you have created a startlist on canoeslalomentries - then using the timing team export gives you a csv file that you can import to google sheets

I agree these are not great solutions but in the absence of a P/Div 1 look alike ...
Kit Washer, Entry Clerk, Chauffeur, Reluctant Organiser, Online Entry Advocate .....
Anything I post under this user is my personal opinion; I am not posting as a member of the Slalom Committee!

JimW
Posts: 570
Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 2:17 pm
Location: Pinkston

Re: CanoeSlalomEntries Support for Covid Slaloms

Post by JimW » Sat Nov 07, 2020 8:01 pm

Dee wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 12:40 pm
JimW wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 3:13 am
Your implementation of canoeslalomentries has basically allowed organising clubs to sidestep GDPR issues
For clarity, canoeslalomentries does not exempt organising clubs from their own GDPR responsibilities, but it should help them to restrict access to data that is not on the startlist, such as emails rather than having them "floating" around the site on the backs of score cards.
Of course it does not exempt us from GDPR compliance, but most events don't require any other personal data, so we have nothing to collect or store, which whether your intention or not, does help us greatly!
Dee wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 12:40 pm
JimW wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 3:13 am
necessary covid related contact details (noting that these may vary across the devolved nations)
According to government website we need name, contact phone number or email address if phone number is not available, date of visit, arrival time and where possible departure time. Does anyone know if Scotland is different?
I just checked (at least I think I did, the document appears intended for businesses) and it appears basically the same, except that a street address is also acceptable in lieu of phone number or email address although that is irrelevant since everyone using online entries will have an email address. Also requirement to hold the data for 21 days, you probably have that in England too?
It is actually slightly confusing in that it appears to be mandatory to collect the data, but not mandatory to give it, and up to the individual organisation to decide whether to deny entry if the data is not given (i.e. you don't exactly have a firm legal basis for denying entry?)
It is also being recommended that everyone downloads the NSH Scotland app, which is presumably different to whatever England normally uses, although again that is not mandatory.
Dee wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 12:40 pm
We have name and email, date of visit, it should be possible to derive an arrival time from the start list and to a degree the departure time as well.The issue is phone numbers - these could possibly be collected via the BC membership data - Duncan might know if he happens to read this, but that won't handle non-members so is still limited. I will see if I can think of a way of collecting them for this year that is not too onerous and can be easily taken out when it's all over.

If is, as Mike suggested possible to display a QR code https://www.gov.uk/create-coronavirus-qr-poster - I suspect that commercial venues will already be doing this, but for other venues I think I would do this too as a relatively easy belt and braces.
This is apparently an example of something that does differ accross home nations:
https://www.gov.uk/create-coronavirus-qr-poster wrote:This service is only available to venues in England and Wales.
Possibly because we have a different App in Scotland?
Dee wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 12:40 pm
JimW wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 3:13 am
Talking with Peter last night I'm sure one of the things I took away that I hadn't been entirely aware of previously is that it is already mandatory for events to submit their contact lists (I'm not sure to whom, local health authority?).
According to https://www.gov.uk/guidance/maintaining ... -and-trace we only need to hand over the data when requested by Track and Trace?
Entirely possible that I misunderstood this point!
Dee wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 12:40 pm
JimW wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 3:13 am
Also that there is currently, and will continue to be a hard cap on the total number of people that can access an event site in a day ... Currently the limit is 200
I wonder if that varies across nations/sites - We've been told Lee Valley are permitted up to 500 on site - if they think they are getting close to the number they just close the gates. As it is a public venue we can't refuse entry, but will be responsible for those there because of the competition so will need names and numbers
Ah, yes this is the limit for SCA 'field of play bubble'. It does actually suggest it may be possible to get it raised by authorisation from SCA, but from the conversation I had this is based on sound stats, and is not going to happen unless the infection rate drops significantly.
Dee wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 12:40 pm
JimW wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 3:13 am
As regards collecting non-paddlers details, yes I believe this will also be essential, but I would want to have control over who can enter their details into that section. In the first instance I need to make sure that all the officials I need to run the race and manage the site are able to be recorded in the system, so I can't just have a free for all ... it would be useful if there was some mechanism that parents could contact the organiser explaining their good reason for needing a non-paddler to access the site

If I go down my preferred route you can set a limit on those that can enter as non-paddling attendees. You could set this relatively low to allow yourself headroom. Once full (and it you wanted to you could mark as full from the outset), they would go onto waiting list and you could then pick and choose who you wanted to offer a space to (you can also remove people from the list by cancelling their entry). Possibly a bit cumbersome, but makes use of existing functionality so should work.

I think that the plea mechanism will need to be by email and you use that when allocating places.
Yes that would all work and will be more simple than whatever was going through my head last night! :D
Dee wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 12:40 pm
For Div 1/Prem I would expect Andy to keep the list of section judges/timing team officials at each competition and supply numbers in the first instance and details only if/when required. Will need to check this!

JimW
Posts: 570
Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 2:17 pm
Location: Pinkston

Re: CanoeSlalomEntries Support for Covid Slaloms

Post by JimW » Sat Nov 07, 2020 8:37 pm

Dee wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 12:49 pm
JimW wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 3:13 am
.. For div 2 and below we are still scoring on cards ...
Not something online entry is going to be able to help with, but ...
Of course, but every discussion has related elements, we have a complex web of requirements! I was expecting others more able to help on those specifics would also be reading - Dave and Duncan helped me out massively with modifying SS to time a WWR event for the TV last year. :D
Dee wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 12:49 pm
If your control area is big enough or you can find two volunteers from the same household:
- time keeper in control keeps list of times
- clerk collects penalties as per usual onto the cards
- you (or some other poor soul) collects and enters them up later.
Two volunteers from one household? Apart from the Baillies it is hard enough getting 1 from 2 households! Certainly that are willing/able to work in control. :D
Dee wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 12:49 pm
OR
put barriers up between volunteer positions and then use a sloping shute (eg constructed with lengths of guttering) to post the cards from one position to the next.
Actually more simple still just print a complete set of cards for each clerk and timekeeper - see we are definitely making progress!

Contact is still an important transfer mechanism and although it is pretty safe to handle items from the postman or that have been stacked in the supermarket because you only have a single chance of the virus getting onto and being picked up from the ite, if you have an asymptomatic person shedding virus and continually passing a little bit on to the next person on each card you will gradually increase the viral load for everyone downstream, unless you have clerks washing their hands very frequently to break the transmission chain... So I think separate cards would be a good plan. It does still mean whoever collects them all to enter at the end of the day needs to wash their hands frequently whilst doing it because they will be handling whole stacks of cards any one of which could have small amounts of virus spread throughout...
Dee wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 12:49 pm
Upload the results to dropbox for paddlers to view at the end of each class.

OR maybe

If internet access available in control then you could use a googleSheets for clerk to enter penalties (rather than putting on a card) and timekeeper to enter times and share the spreadsheet with paddlers (as viewers). Google sheets is happy for more than one person to be updating at a time, so this would allow people to be well spread out.

You'd probably still want to transfer the data to SS later to get points calculated etc, but it would enable paddlers to see results on their phones and you could probably do a fair bit of cutting and pasting later.

FYI - if you have created a startlist on canoeslalomentries - then using the timing team export gives you a csv file that you can import to google sheets

I agree these are not great solutions but in the absence of a P/Div 1 look alike ...
OK, so I can't find the reference for this, but it is something that has come up a few times in relation to getting back to competition in Scotland so it might be a Scotland/SCA issue and may still be provisional for publication when competitions are to be allowed, but it seems that it is currently not permitted (illegal or NGB rules?) to post results even online, during the competition. I hope I am misinformed on this, because to me this causes a whole raft of problems with the slalom rulebook, which again is beyond the scope of canoeslalomentries to fix :D

With respect to your suggestions for electronic solutions, I could possibly cobble something together along those lines (never used google sheets) if I can find time, but not all organisers have the know-how to do that.

alan1nckc
Posts: 45
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2012 6:19 pm

Re: CanoeSlalomEntries Support for Covid Slaloms

Post by alan1nckc » Tue Nov 10, 2020 1:15 pm

re: numbers limit. At the Nene we have no boundary fence, and public footpaths and cycleways running through the site, including directly adjacent to the course. Policing a limit will be impossible.

How do we deal with this?

Dee
Posts: 1444
Joined: Sun May 08, 2005 8:34 pm

Re: CanoeSlalomEntries Support for Covid Slaloms

Post by Dee » Tue Nov 10, 2020 1:18 pm

alan1nckc wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 1:15 pm
re: numbers limit. At the Nene we have no boundary fence, and public footpaths and cycleways running through the site, including directly adjacent to the course. Policing a limit will be impossible.

How do we deal with this?
Have you spoken to the centre - they should have their own policies and you can only, I believe, be responsible for those present because of the competition. Certainly, we have been told that this is the case for Lee Valley.
Kit Washer, Entry Clerk, Chauffeur, Reluctant Organiser, Online Entry Advocate .....
Anything I post under this user is my personal opinion; I am not posting as a member of the Slalom Committee!

alan1nckc
Posts: 45
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2012 6:19 pm

Re: CanoeSlalomEntries Support for Covid Slaloms

Post by alan1nckc » Tue Nov 10, 2020 1:42 pm

We are almost 12 months away from the Div 2/3 event, which is the one with large numbers. I'm sure things will have changed by then. I think we can operate within a lmit of 200 people, including parents, officials etc, without making a large loss.

The Div 4 in April doesn't attract large numbers - 20 - 30 paddlers at most. The decisions on that event are likely to have to be made very close to the time, because it seems to me that the situation won't be stable by then.

In each case, discussions with the Centre will have to be on a regular basis.

PeterC
Posts: 236
Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 12:14 am
Location: Fife Scotland

Re: CanoeSlalomEntries Support for Covid Slaloms

Post by PeterC » Thu Nov 19, 2020 7:50 pm

To tackle some of these in no particular order.

Lee Valley is a closed site therefore relatively easy to police and you will be responsible for everyone you let in.

Collecting QR codes is not an alternative to collecting identity data, it is an extra (and perfectly good idea to do it) and remember the devolved nations have separate systems. Hopefully by next year colleagues at National Services Scotland will have got them all linked up, they are trying. We need paddlers and everyone who entered the event.

It is a legal requirement under Public Health Legislation that requires an event organiser to share contact detail for all attendees at an event with Test and Protect or Track and Trace etc. for up to 21 days after the event. They would contact you directly. After that the data should be destroyed unless you have other reason to collect it. You do not have to register with the Information Commissioner as I understand it to collect this data. While Dee collecting it is useful and can be demonstrated to be appropriate I think there would still be a need to identify all on the day.

Nene - you can have an event including up to 30 (participants and volunteers) without running into the COVID Secure requirements above this, which will then require you to identify everyone present even if it is a public space. Difficulty is not an excuse as I understand it.

It is a BC requirement not to post results at the event.

First Aid I do not perceive will be a major issue but we do need to ensure that we minimise any need to attend A&E.

What I am not clear about is what responsibility the organiser would have for those who chose to travel to an event even though local rules would preclude that e.g. Tier 4 in Scotland may not leave their local council area without just cause. Of course the organiser will have an address.

Protests are a challenge.

What I am saying to everyone is that racing during the Pandemic is not going to be normal and we should focus solely on the competition and accept that for the moment the social part of our sport needs to be suspended. There is no mitigation that can allow the social aspects to proceed.

Dee
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Re: CanoeSlalomEntries Support for Covid Slaloms

Post by Dee » Thu Nov 19, 2020 7:54 pm

PeterC wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 7:50 pm
Lee Valley is a closed site therefore relatively easy to police and you will be responsible for everyone you let in.
Lee Valley is also a public site - we don't have control over who will be let in and the centre may well operate the legacy course separately when the Div 1 is happening
Kit Washer, Entry Clerk, Chauffeur, Reluctant Organiser, Online Entry Advocate .....
Anything I post under this user is my personal opinion; I am not posting as a member of the Slalom Committee!

PeterC
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Location: Fife Scotland

Re: CanoeSlalomEntries Support for Covid Slaloms

Post by PeterC » Sat Nov 21, 2020 8:15 pm

If Lee Valley do that they would then need to be responsible for the overall compliance with the rules and numbers. It is still much easier than say HPP or Tees Barrage.

alan1nckc
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Re: CanoeSlalomEntries Support for Covid Slaloms

Post by alan1nckc » Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:14 pm

It is a BC requirement not to post results at the event.
Protests are a challenge.
As far as I can see, the first of those makes the second impossible. If the paddlers don't know the result, how are they going to protest.

It does perhaps depend on the meaning of "post results". Does it mean displaying them in a place which will cause groups to collect? Or is it the wider version of "don't make the results known during the event"?

Providing results on a webpage on a local wireless network won't cause people to congregate, but does provide paddlers with the necessary information.

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