6.2 Veterans Points (75/25)

General slalom chatter...rant about the bad, rave about the good
WindsorCC
Posts: 113
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2016 8:22 pm

Re: 6.2 Veterans Points (75/25)

Post by WindsorCC » Sun Nov 28, 2021 5:38 pm

I thought at a 2/3 vets points were always calculated against the Div 2?

Paul

Dee
Posts: 1444
Joined: Sun May 08, 2005 8:34 pm

Re: 6.2 Veterans Points (75/25)

Post by Dee » Sun Nov 28, 2021 5:51 pm

I would expect that you calculate div 2 points with the div 2 difficulty factor then div 3 points with the div 3 difficulty factor. And then take the best of the results.
Kit Washer, Entry Clerk, Chauffeur, Reluctant Organiser, Online Entry Advocate .....
Anything I post under this user is my personal opinion; I am not posting as a member of the Slalom Committee!

Dee
Posts: 1444
Joined: Sun May 08, 2005 8:34 pm

Re: 6.2 Veterans Points (75/25)

Post by Dee » Sun Nov 28, 2021 5:53 pm

WindsorCC wrote:
Sun Nov 28, 2021 5:38 pm
I thought at a 2/3 vets points were always calculated against the Div 2?

Paul
I thought the got the best of the points that they would have got in either of the divisions. In your case, of course, that would always be from the div 2 :D :D I could be wrong though.
Kit Washer, Entry Clerk, Chauffeur, Reluctant Organiser, Online Entry Advocate .....
Anything I post under this user is my personal opinion; I am not posting as a member of the Slalom Committee!

alan1nckc
Posts: 45
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2012 6:19 pm

Re: 6.2 Veterans Points (75/25)

Post by alan1nckc » Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:02 pm

<quote>I thought the got the best of the points that they would have got in either of the divisions. In your case, of course, that would always be from the div 2 :D :D I could be wrong though.</quote>

Even that can be read 2 ways.

Suppose the paddler would match a Div 2 paddler who got 50 points, and a Div 3 paddler who got 75. That would under the previous system get 75 points without ambiguity.

Now however it could be read as
50 with Div 2 uplift compared to 75 with div 3 uplift. So 50+150 compared to 75+10 = 200
or
75 with uplift from div 3 (because that's where the point match was found) so 75+10 = 95
or
75 + div2 uplift, because Div 2 is the highest division of the competition. So 75+150 = 225

Take your pick

I suspect the intention is the last of those, but it needs to be made clear (before I start writing the code to implement it).

Dee
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Joined: Sun May 08, 2005 8:34 pm

Re: 6.2 Veterans Points (75/25)

Post by Dee » Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:45 pm

alan1nckc wrote:
Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:02 pm
<quote>I thought the got the best of the points that they would have got in either of the divisions. In your case, of course, that would always be from the div 2 :D :D I could be wrong though.</quote>

Even that can be read 2 ways.

Suppose the paddler would match a Div 2 paddler who got 50 points, and a Div 3 paddler who got 75. That would under the previous system get 75 points without ambiguity.

Now however it could be read as
50 with Div 2 uplift compared to 75 with div 3 uplift. So 50+150 compared to 75+10 = 200
or
75 with uplift from div 3 (because that's where the point match was found) so 75+10 = 95
or
75 + div2 uplift, because Div 2 is the highest division of the competition. So 75+150 = 225

Take your pick

I suspect the intention is the last of those, but it needs to be made clear (before I start writing the code to implement it).
As I said above I would do the uplifts first and then compare the final results, so option one
Kit Washer, Entry Clerk, Chauffeur, Reluctant Organiser, Online Entry Advocate .....
Anything I post under this user is my personal opinion; I am not posting as a member of the Slalom Committee!

Dee
Posts: 1444
Joined: Sun May 08, 2005 8:34 pm

Re: 6.2 Veterans Points (75/25)

Post by Dee » Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:46 pm

alan1nckc wrote:
Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:02 pm

Even that can be read 2 ways.

Suppose the paddler would match a Div 2 paddler who got 50 points, and a Div 3 paddler who got 75. That would under the previous system get 75 points without ambiguity.

Now however it could be read as
50 with Div 2 uplift compared to 75 with div 3 uplift. So 50+150 compared to 75+10 = 200
or
75 with uplift from div 3 (because that's where the point match was found) so 75+10 = 95
or
75 + div2 uplift, because Div 2 is the highest division of the competition. So 75+150 = 225

Take your pick

I suspect the intention is the last of those, but it needs to be made clear (before I start writing the code to implement it).
As I said above I would do the uplifts first and then compare the final results, so option one

PS I would double check how Dave plans to implement it and match him.
Kit Washer, Entry Clerk, Chauffeur, Reluctant Organiser, Online Entry Advocate .....
Anything I post under this user is my personal opinion; I am not posting as a member of the Slalom Committee!

harratts
Posts: 141
Joined: Fri May 18, 2012 3:51 pm

Re: 6.2 Veterans Points (75/25)

Post by harratts » Sun Nov 28, 2021 8:02 pm

It is difficult to see why at a Division 2/3 race where everyone does the exact same course, Vet.'s who enter are entitled to any Division 2 Difficulty points uplift but that is the system that has been voted in.

alan1nckc
Posts: 45
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2012 6:19 pm

Re: 6.2 Veterans Points (75/25)

Post by alan1nckc » Sun Nov 28, 2021 8:04 pm

<quote>As I said above I would do the uplifts first and then compare the final results, so option one</quote>

If it's done that way, there is unlikely to be any point in loking at the lower division results at all.

If the uplift is applied afterwards, then there's a good chance that the lower division will return a better score before uplift. Then it's a queation of which uplift to apply.

I agree that we all need to calculate the points the same way, but that way needs to be publically clear as well, or we'll get arguments at prizegivings - again!

There's nothing like trying to write the code for finding inconsistencies and ambiguities. Now is the time to clarify them.

Fortunately it's unlikely that my code will be used before next September, So I've got more time in hand.

Steve Holmes
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Joined: Mon May 21, 2018 11:05 am

Re: 6.2 Veterans Points (75/25)

Post by Steve Holmes » Sun Nov 28, 2021 8:16 pm

The lower division result would likely kick in if the vet would fail to beat anyone at div 2. In this case the uplift wouldn’t apply and they would probably get the div 3 points (unless they failed to beat any div 3s too). You’re right, that in most cases, after the uplift is applied, most vets at a 2/3 would get the div 2 points.

JimW
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Location: Pinkston

Re: 6.2 Veterans Points (75/25)

Post by JimW » Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:34 am

I think the difficulty factor is about the difficulty of beating the host division paddlers, not the difficulty of the course, which is the same at a Div 2/3.

If the system is pyramidal and working properly, the range of paddler ability per division contracts as you move up the divisions and the range of race times should also compress - never quite works out because there are usually 1 or 2 people who can't figure out a certain move and get a 50. I'm sure if you look at my results for 2020/21 season I probably picked them all up by beating people who 50'd both runs...

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