Waiting list confusion

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Steve Holmes
Posts: 80
Joined: Mon May 21, 2018 11:05 am

Waiting list confusion

Post by Steve Holmes » Wed Jun 08, 2022 8:16 am

Could someone more knowledgeable explain the waiting list system to me please? The rules are really confusing and seem to say:
Host division entries before the 4 week point get entered, paddle ups go on a waiting list in percentile order.
After the 4 week point but before the 2 week point everyone goes on the waiting list in percentile order.
I’m not sure what happens after that point.

However, looking at Chapel Falls, currently between the 4 and 2 week point:
No div 1s on the waiting list (apart from Talu, who is still listed as div 2)
Some div 2s on the entry list, others on the waiting list. Yes it is the higher ranked ones on the entry, but surely if we’re at the point of accepting div 2s and still nearly 100 paddlers away from the entry limit, more div 2s should be accepted?

Dee
Posts: 1444
Joined: Sun May 08, 2005 8:34 pm

Re: Waiting list confusion

Post by Dee » Wed Jun 08, 2022 9:35 am

Prior to the 4week point paddleups can only enter on waiting list. Also, the entry system checks the numbers on the list of entries to see if race is already full. If it is then all paddlers go to waiting list.

At the 4week point (in this case 4th June) the following things happen:
1) the organiser can start accepting paddle ups. This results in the competitor getting an automated email to provide payment details
2) the entry system starts using numbers on the waiting list as well as the accepted list when assessing availability of places
3) all paddlers (including paddle ups) can enter the race directly if there is still sufficient space after taking waiting list into account, otherwise they all go to the waiting list.

In the past, by the 4 week point the numbers on the waiting list tended to result in the race being marked as full. So, what you are seeing is a result of overall numbers being much lower.
- paddleups on the waiting list are those who pre-entered before 4week point
- paddleups accepted are those who entered after the 4week point so went directly to the accepted entries

What to do if you are on waiting list:
- chase organiser to process waiting list entries - but bear in mind the earliest they could have done so was 4June and they may have just not had the chance yet
- if you haven’t had an email offering you a place you can, in theory, remove your own waiting list entry and re-enter immediately. The risk to this approach is that if the race becomes full between your two actions then you will end up back on waiting list but much lower down
- wait patiently

I have considered automatically offering places in this particular scenario, but just haven’t had time to write (and, more importantly and time consuming, test) the code.
Kit Washer, Entry Clerk, Chauffeur, Reluctant Organiser, Online Entry Advocate .....
Anything I post under this user is my personal opinion; I am not posting as a member of the Slalom Committee!

Steve Holmes
Posts: 80
Joined: Mon May 21, 2018 11:05 am

Re: Waiting list confusion

Post by Steve Holmes » Wed Jun 08, 2022 10:16 am

Thanks Dee, that makes sense.
So if someone enters as a paddle up after the 4 week point, but before the organiser has processed the waiting list, do they bypass higher ranked paddlers who are on the waiting list?
I don’t think it will be a problem this season!

Dee
Posts: 1444
Joined: Sun May 08, 2005 8:34 pm

Re: Waiting list confusion

Post by Dee » Wed Jun 08, 2022 12:20 pm

Steve Holmes wrote:
Wed Jun 08, 2022 10:16 am
Thanks Dee, that makes sense.
So if someone enters as a paddle up after the 4 week point, but before the organiser has processed the waiting list, do they bypass higher ranked paddlers who are on the waiting list?
I don’t think it will be a problem this season!
Yes in as much as they get an entry accepted more quickly, but only if there is room for everyone on the waiting list to be accepted
Kit Washer, Entry Clerk, Chauffeur, Reluctant Organiser, Online Entry Advocate .....
Anything I post under this user is my personal opinion; I am not posting as a member of the Slalom Committee!

Steve Holmes
Posts: 80
Joined: Mon May 21, 2018 11:05 am

Re: Waiting list confusion

Post by Steve Holmes » Wed Jun 08, 2022 9:00 pm

Thanks

Mike Mitchell
Posts: 180
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2014 10:44 pm

Re: Waiting list confusion

Post by Mike Mitchell » Wed Jun 08, 2022 9:18 pm

How to guarantee getting a PU entry.

As I see the system, if you do your PU entry just after midnight 4 weeks before the event, you will beat the Organiser adding everyone above you on the waiting list and get your entry. Providing the event is not full before this time.

I like the PU system of guaranteeing the highest ranked paddlers get an entry first, but there is a way round it if the Organiser is not sat with a finger on the button 4 weeks before the event ?

Dee
Posts: 1444
Joined: Sun May 08, 2005 8:34 pm

Re: Waiting list confusion

Post by Dee » Thu Jun 09, 2022 9:59 am

Mike Mitchell wrote:
Wed Jun 08, 2022 9:18 pm
How to guarantee getting a PU entry.

As I see the system, if you do your PU entry just after midnight 4 weeks before the event, you will beat the Organiser adding everyone above you on the waiting list and get your entry. Providing the event is not full before this time.

I like the PU system of guaranteeing the highest ranked paddlers get an entry first, but there is a way round it if the Organiser is not sat with a finger on the button 4 weeks before the event ?
It is NOT a way around the rules. As soon as the the 4 week deadline is reached then the system counts all waiting list entries when deciding if race is full, so you will only get your midnight entry if there is room for everyone on the waiting list plus you. If not you will still end up on waiting list

Suppose
Entry Limit = 120
Number of accepted entries = 80
Number of waiting list entries = 30
Then the total entries are 110, so the first 10 paddlers at midnight will get places everyone else goes to the bottom of the waiting list. The 30 existing waiting list entries will then be at the top of the list and should be accepted by organiser within a few days

However:
Entry Limit = 120
Number of accepted entries = 80
Number of waiting list entries = 40
Then the total entries are 120, so at the 4week deadline the race is full and everyone entering subsequently goes to the bottom of the waiting list
Kit Washer, Entry Clerk, Chauffeur, Reluctant Organiser, Online Entry Advocate .....
Anything I post under this user is my personal opinion; I am not posting as a member of the Slalom Committee!

Mike Mitchell
Posts: 180
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2014 10:44 pm

Re: Waiting list confusion

Post by Mike Mitchell » Thu Jun 09, 2022 2:19 pm

Dee- Wrote
It is NOT a way around the rules. As soon as the the 4 week deadline is reached then the system counts all waiting list entries when deciding if race is full, so you will only get your midnight entry if there is room for everyone on the waiting list plus you. If not you will still end up on waiting list
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So One of my paddlers has just entered this morning Chapel Falls as a PU.
His entry has been excepted and he has jumped everyone on the waiting list

I am not looking for a way around the system, its just how it works :D

Dee
Posts: 1444
Joined: Sun May 08, 2005 8:34 pm

Re: Waiting list confusion

Post by Dee » Thu Jun 09, 2022 5:12 pm

Mike Mitchell wrote:
Thu Jun 09, 2022 2:19 pm
Dee- Wrote
It is NOT a way around the rules. As soon as the the 4 week deadline is reached then the system counts all waiting list entries when deciding if race is full, so you will only get your midnight entry if there is room for everyone on the waiting list plus you. If not you will still end up on waiting list
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So One of my paddlers has just entered this morning Chapel Falls as a PU.
His entry has been excepted and he has jumped everyone on the waiting list

I am not looking for a way around the system, its just how it works :D
But he hasn't really gained anything as everyone already on the waiting list will get their entry when the organiser processes them - he would not have been able to enter directly if there wasn't room for everyone on the waiting list. So implying he has "jumped" the waiting list thereby getting a place that he would not have otherwise have got is wrong. No-one is missing out as a result.

This is primarily to reduce load on organisers when a lot of entries come in during last four weeks and also to reduce processing complications for host vs paddle ups.

It's just how the system works!
Kit Washer, Entry Clerk, Chauffeur, Reluctant Organiser, Online Entry Advocate .....
Anything I post under this user is my personal opinion; I am not posting as a member of the Slalom Committee!

Mike Mitchell
Posts: 180
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2014 10:44 pm

Re: Waiting list confusion

Post by Mike Mitchell » Thu Jun 09, 2022 7:47 pm

But he hasn't really gained anything as everyone already on the waiting list will get their entry when the organiser processes them - he would not have been able to enter directly if there wasn't room for everyone on the waiting list. So implying he has "jumped" the waiting list thereby getting a place that he would not have otherwise have got is wrong. No-one is missing out as a result.

This is primarily to reduce load on organisers when a lot of entries come in during last four weeks and also to reduce processing complications for host vs paddle ups.

It's just how the system works!
[/quote]


That makes it clear then.

So I take it everyone on the waiting list can now book Camping, accommodation as they will get accepted.

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