6.1.1 Veterans Points

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Secretary Man
Posts: 57
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:09 pm

6.1.1 Veterans Points

Post by Secretary Man » Tue Nov 01, 2022 6:21 pm

Proposed and seconded by The Sharks Canoe Club
To ensure every Veteran racer achieves points proportional to their own best score, and of different value to other veteran racers with different best scores in the same event.
The introduction of Difficulty Factor in the calculation of Veterans Points for the 2022 season did not anticipate the frequency of when the best scores of more than one Veteran would match to the same racer in the respective divisional event, thus failing to differentiate veterans from one another. Nor did it anticipate the circumstances when Veterans failed to beat the last racer in the divisional event: in effect, at Prem and Division 1 races, the achievement of the DF depends on whether a racer in the ranking event incurs a 50 penalty on both runs or not, thus is entirely detached from the proximity of the Veteran’s score to that of the event winner. Concern has been expressed that a veteran athlete at a division 2 race can score significantly more points than the Division 2 winner.
To illustrate the proposed change, the race results from the 2022 season (up to 16th October) are shown in the following chart which plots Points on the y axis and on the x axis the proportion of the Vet’s best score to the event winner’s best score. The actual points awarded to Vets at races of each division (coloured dots), would migrate on to the respective coloured sloping line for each division (black dots, points calculated as per this motion). Additional charts available for WK1, MC1, WC1.
Sorry can't easily paset the charts here, please look at the Agenda for some of them
2.10.3 Difficulty factor
2.10.3.a To reflect the degree of difficult for Veterans racing in competitions hosting higher divisions, the points awarded will be increased by a difficulty factor. The points calculated under 2.10.4. will be increased by:
• Division 2 event points calculated will be increased by 150 points
• Division 1 event points calculated will be increased by 400 points
• Premier event points calculated will be increased by 700 points

Renumber subsequent rules
2.10.4 Calculating points – Quorate Divisional Event (See Rule 1.7)
2.10.4.a Ranking points are obtained by comparing scores with the winning score in the corresponding divisional event according to the following formula
Points = [(Best Score) / (Class Winner’s Best Score)] x M + C
Where M and C depend on the host division of the race, with the following values:
Division M C
Premier -640 1640
Division 1 -480 1230
Division 2 -320 820
Division 3 -160 410

. Where a Veteran’s score does not correspond exactly with a score in the divisional event points will be awarded for the next place lower. If the Veteran’s score matches the score of more than one athlete in the corresponding divisional event, then the points awarded to the higher placed divisional athlete will be used. If the above calculation fails to match to a host division score, then the Veteran will be awarded points according to 2.10.5
2.10.4.b Where there is progression from qualification to (semi- finals and) finals, scores are compared with the corresponding divisional event scores to decide whether the athlete progresses or not. and the points they are awarded. Points are calculated by comparison with the score of the leading score at each phase reached; where a veteran athlete reaches more than one phase, the highest points from any phase are awarded for the race .
For example: for a Vet WK1, if the athlete’s score is equal to or less than the score of the last placed divisional WK1 qualifying from the heats, the athlete proceeds to the next stage. Similarly, the athlete must match the score of the last placed divisional WK1 qualifying from the semi-final to progress to the final. Points are calculated by comparison with the scores of Divisional WK1 at the last each phase reached and the maximum of those points awarded.
2.10.4.c In the case of a competition hosting more than one Division, scores will be compared with every Division in the same event and the highest points found will be awarded, for instance, at a Division 2/3 race, a WK1 Veteran's score will be compared with those of WK1 in both Division 2 and Division 3 and the higher score so found will be awarded.
2.10.5 Where a Veterans score is lower than any host division score the Veteran will be awarded the points below. No difficulty factor will be applied:
• Division 3 - 10 points
• Division 2 - 20 points
• Division 1 - 30 points
• Premier - 40 Points
2.10.6 Calculating points – Inquorate Divisional Event (See Rule 1.7)
2.10.6.a In the case of a competition hosting more one Division, ranking points will be calculated against the corresponding Men’s Kayak’s event using the method described in rule 6.7.
2.10.6.b Where there is progression from qualification to (semi-finals and) finals, modified scores are compared with MK1’s scores to decide whether the athlete progresses if they would have progressed in the ranking event. and t The points they are awarded
2.10.6.c. In the case of a competition hosting more than one Division, where anyone (or more) of the corresponding divisional events is inquorate the Veteran’s modified score will be compared to MK1’s winner’s scores for that division and to the corresponding quorate divisional events where available. The highest points found will be awarded. For example: A Division 2/3 race hosts a Division 3 WK1 event that is inquorate and a Division 2 WK1 event that is quorate. In this case a WK1 Veteran's modified score will be compared with the those of MK1 winner’s score in Division 3 (using the method described in 6.7.) and her raw score with Division 2 WK1 winner’s score (using the method described in rule 2.10.4 The highest score so found will be awarded.

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Hon Secretary to the British Canoeing Slalom Committee
( a different Id is used for personal rants and raves)

Rick
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:08 pm

Re: 6.1.1 Veterans Points

Post by Rick » Fri Nov 04, 2022 10:58 am

there are active discussions of this motion amongst vets using the Whatsapp group 'Slalom Masters Group' (admin is Robert Grundy), and the Facebook group 'UK Canoe Slalom Results'. Those places facilitate the pasting of charts and videos to provide greater explanation . . .

Rick
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:08 pm

Re: 6.1.1 Veterans Points

Post by Rick » Thu Nov 17, 2022 3:57 pm

a facebook page created to explain the two motions addressing Veterans' Points and Unified Masters-Veterans Ranking:

https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100087926532061

Enjoy the short videos and pictures !

Rick
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:08 pm

Re: 6.1.1 Veterans Points

Post by Rick » Fri Nov 18, 2022 9:20 am

To clarify, there should be no reference to host division scores when considering the minimum points to be awarded.
The intention was to simply retain the current values of Minimum Points by division.
This was overlooked when proofing the final draft of the Motion, but an eagle-eyed reviewer has pointed it out (thanks, you know who you are).

So 2.10.5 in the motion should state:

2.10.5 The minimum points awarded to a veteran will depend on the host division as follows:
• Division 3 - 10 points
• Division 2 - 20 points
• Division 1 - 30 points
• Premier – 40 Points

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