Llangollen races and Dee access - Constructive comments

Gareth Evans · Post by **Gareth Evans** » Wed Sep 15, 2004 5:52 pm

Also, some of you are going to run the river anyway and annoy fishermen because there is no agreement, but you want slalom cancelled. Where is the logic in that?

no i do not want the slalom cancelled, what i want is open access to all the rivers in my country, not restricted to one or two weekends a year or to a specific discipline.

I thought the WCA was negotiating the access agreement for all paddlers. There are no updates on this on their website since February. How come they did not capitalise on the successes in Athens?

the access agreement discussion fell down, check sharedrivers.org.uk you will see that we where being offered three weekends a year, and then have too enter into a seperate agreement to paddle the best section (chain bridge to town falls). thats not acceptable

also last year everybody stayed off the river to show that we can be reasonable and that we wanted an agreement which would allow fair access to the river, the non competitive events where cancelled yet (and i am happy about this) the slaloms where allowed to run.

so after being reasonable for a year, i will be back to paddle the dee. there is no acess agreement - no reason for me to stay off. and it is not an "im allright jack approach"

I do not want anyone to think that i am anti slalom - it could not be further to the case, but what gets my goat up, is that after staying off the river and loosing the dee tour, that a group of fellow paddlers could run a petition and try to get a seperate access agreement, then when they bow to the majority write a piece of vitriol as now disapeered from the front page which stated.

It's recreational paddlers who have stopped the Town Falls races, because they want wider access to the Dee and believe that the slaloms, and the money they bring to Llangollen, can be used as a lever to get it.

gareth (my real name, i live in the valley)

Mrs H · Post by **Mrs H** » Thu Sep 16, 2004 9:12 am

The petition was not set up just to get the slalom on it was to stir the relevant parties into talking again, if they arn't talking nothing woll be achieved. I know why it was done as I did it. It was done with the interest of canoeing as a whole at heart, if no one is being pro active then nothing will ever happen, just because I am involved in slalom doesn't mean I have no other canoeing interests. But nothing happens if those involved sit on their buts and do nothing.

Mrs H · Post by **Mrs H** » Thu Sep 16, 2004 9:16 am

Sorry forgot the other point re last year, as no one had bothered to communicate with the slalom exec as to what was going on I was cetainly unaware as organiser that there was any on going problems. Apparently we have since been informed that there was a threat of recreational paddlers disrupting the slalom because it was being allowed to continue but no one bothered to warn us of that either!

Poor communication is in part the cause of this problem. :O

Seedy Paddler · Post by **Seedy Paddler** » Thu Sep 16, 2004 9:58 am

From the Rivers Guidebook discussion :
Quote:
Today, an enterprising BCU member (not me) emailed senior figures in BCU Access and suggested that a great publicity coup could be achieved by calling up the national media and giving them the current story - we have two slalom medalists but nowhere to hold a national championship.

All this would take is a few phonecalls to newsdesks, and if they bite, maybe an interview with a BCU representative on Llangollen bridge.

The response - at least they replied...

- One respondent thought there might be space in the future on the BCU rivers access website to tell this story.
- The other said (and I quote) 'it's a Welsh problem'
End Quote

Technically speaking the response that it is a Welsh problem is correct in that it is the rights and responsibilities of the WCA to negotiate Access in Wales. However this has far wider implications and perhaps the Slalom Exec and Performance Coaches should take up this suggestion.

It should be noted that the Anti-Hunt lobby currently pushing for the ban on fox hunting have a minority lobby that would like to include a ban on angling - cruelty to fish to have a hook driven through their mouth then dragged to the bank pulled out of the water, then allowed to asphixiate or get smacked on the head and beaten to death. Perhaps we need to consider other allies to bring pressure on anglers to allow reasonable access to rivers.

VivienneM · Post by **VivienneM** » Thu Sep 16, 2004 4:23 pm

How about:
-Run the events with the WCA'S blessing.
-Have a meeting on one of the evenings with WCA committee and interested members, BCU slalom committee, BCU access and other relevant people (sounds like this should have happened last year) and sort out respective needs re. access.
-Invite the anglers and landowners to the event and even maybe to the meeting or a second meeting
Also
-run a special class for recreational paddlers in any boat so they can see what slalom is all about and enjoy the falls.
-invite the press to the event and promote river access and canoeing.

VivienneM · Post by **VivienneM** » Fri Sep 17, 2004 10:44 am

Wishful thinking I know, but since I seem to have killed the conversation I’ll make one last point.
The loss of the Llangollen races WILL affect our medal chances.
Most of our ambitious juniors have woven in extra trips this summer to European whitewater courses to gain more experience. To them, the loss of 4 race days on the most challenging course in GB and one where people don't train all year, is a huge blow. It will certainly set back their progress
I shall be active in trying to resolve the access problem but would have been anyway, and I did write to my MP!
I think the Llangollen races are vital to British slalom
Without the challenge of the Llangollen races at the end of the season lots will lose interest and others have their progess limited.
When you see the facilities in Europe, you realise that we just cannot have our facilities reduced anymore and expect to compete.
All the best Vivienne Mugford

Pingu · Post by **Pingu** » Fri Sep 17, 2004 1:24 pm

Seedy Paddler wrote:From the Rivers Guidebook discussion :
Quote:
Today, an enterprising BCU member (not me) emailed senior figures in BCU Access and suggested that a great publicity coup could be achieved by calling up the national media and giving them the current story - we have two slalom medalists but nowhere to hold a national championship.

What about this: (borrowed from one of the ideas on the BCU access pages)

We ask Campbell and Helen to go to Trafalgar Square with their medals, boats and in their paddling kit.

They are seen to attempt to paddle in the fountains (because the British Open has had to be cancelled due to the access situation on the river Dee).

Get the national press and TV there and our case will be seen by millions.

Seedy Paddler · Post by **Seedy Paddler** » Fri Sep 17, 2004 1:30 pm

Another option let's hijack a BBC debate page on the application of the Countryside and Rights of Way 2000 Act.

Pust up the comments, you have limited access to a couple of areas in England. Nothing to support access to water and we have the ridiculous situation with the slalom.

At the very least it will force the issue into a section of the media, see:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3651482.stm

I have submitted a comment, whether it is edited we will see and of course I fully expect the nationalistic rant of being Scottish so what has it got to do with me!
:p

jj · Post by jj » Sun Sep 19, 2004 10:02 pm

DEE DAYS 20/21 NOVEMBER 2004.

We will be organising a weekend event in Llangollen to highlight the lack of river access.

The aim is to make the public aware of the current access situation and the damage that it is doing to both the economy of the town and Canoe-Sport as a whole. It is hoped that this issue is of such importance to canoeists that we get the largest number of participants in one place ever! We are looking to get full media coverage of the event and to make a major positive impact on the public perception of the problem.

The provisional timetable is:

Saturday, Fun Event at Mile End Mill.

Saturday, Evening Party, Mile End Mill.

Sunday 11am-1pm Official Protest in Llangollen Town.

Access to the event/party and the Mile End Mill site is free.

For more information please contact:
DeeDays@jjraftcanoe.com Jim Jayes. 19.9.04

rich hounslow · Post by **rich hounslow** » Mon Sep 20, 2004 2:46 pm

i believe the question was raised early on in this topic as to what the offer that was made this year for access. as far as i can see no one has clearly defined what the offer was, but would i be correct in saying that in the past there have been 6 tour dates and this year there were again 6 tour dates offered?
i am only asking to better understand the situation.

rich hounslow · Post by **rich hounslow** » Mon Sep 20, 2004 2:50 pm

rich hounslow wrote:i believe a question was raised early on in this topic, asking waht the actual offer was for this years access. as far as i can see no one has clearly defined what the offer was, but would i be correct in saying that in the past there have been 6 tour dates and this year there were again 6 tour dates offered?
i am only asking to better understand the situation.

Mrs H · Post by **Mrs H** » Mon Sep 20, 2004 9:38 pm

thanks for all the support at HPP this weekend. You can help by writing to your local mp, the minister for sport the Right Hon. Richard Caborn and the British Olympic Committee. We are still compiling a list of local groups/people that also need a barage of letters. The more letters the better, particularly on the back of the right to roam act, river access needs now looking at to improve access and use for all.

Rich - not sure on how many tours there were but I think on offer were 3 dates with rectricted numbers, apparently there used to be up to 2000 people on a tour and the offer restricted it to 450. If I am wrong I am sure someone will correct me.

Seedy Paddler · Post by **Seedy Paddler** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 5:43 pm

Don't know if others followed my suggestion but I noted that the BBC site on the right to roam removed the discussion postings and reverted to a presentation of a managed email debate between a landowner rep and someone from the ramblers assoc.

I never noted my post publicly but if the system went into overload maybe the feed back may get somewhere.

Regards

VivienneM · Post by **VivienneM** » Wed Sep 22, 2004 11:18 am

I have just been able to make a comment on http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/talking_point/3665364.stm
This page reports some of the comments but no seedy paddler entry and I think no mention of rivers. Maybe if enough if us send comments they will open a river access debate