Sorry Mrs H, I do appreciate the efforts of the volunteers and helpers who administer the sport on our behalf, but
they are also the people who set the rule for protesting within a certain time frame. If that rule is then able to be challenged for any reason, then its not a good rule.
What happens if Campbell breaks a paddle in senior selection and gets a paddle thrown from the bank, its against the rules but do we allow it because its Campbell, or do we allow him a re run because in this instance we think the rule should not be applied. I'm not suggesting that favouritism is going on here because I dont even know who is involved, but if you change the rules for one person, where do you stop.
The rules are there to protect everyone, the Jury is there to see that everyone who has a complaint gets a fair hearing under the rules. I dont remember reading a bit that says the Jury can decide what rules apply and which ones dont.
If we are going to have selection and run it under strict rules such as boat weight, then all rules should apply equally. Otherwise look where we are, another year, selection and more controversy.
Maybe next year will be different.
Selection
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guest
to bill: i wasn't even at the event and i didn't even know of the situation until i saw what you had written. like i said before, you gave enough info for anyone to work out who it was.
as for saying that sticking up for the volunteers is getting old, i think you need to think about who runs the events for us. i agree that mistakes are made by them and sometimes it can get frustrating, but until slalom becomes profesional and the people who run the events get paid we'll just have to put up with the small mistakes.
as for saying that sticking up for the volunteers is getting old, i think you need to think about who runs the events for us. i agree that mistakes are made by them and sometimes it can get frustrating, but until slalom becomes profesional and the people who run the events get paid we'll just have to put up with the small mistakes.
What I find distasteful is that the paddlers are being encouraged to make protests, whatever the circumstances, by their coaches. This is a new development in our sport, at least in domestic competition, and I do not like it. I wish there was some way of stopping it, but I think that now the genie is out of the bottle and it is here to stay, making the organiser's and the official's lives harder, and spoiling the atmosphere of the races.
I am sure that the coaches are able to justify their actions and apease their conciences, but this is my sport, I have done it for over 20 years, and I don't apreciate it being screwed up.
I am sure that the coaches are able to justify their actions and apease their conciences, but this is my sport, I have done it for over 20 years, and I don't apreciate it being screwed up.
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Bill Denboro
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2005 8:54 pm
Guest... I think you're missing the point. I am simply trying to make a point that davebrads and Dutch Geezer have articulated very well.
Re. the 'small mistakes'. The decision made could have resulted in a different line up on the GB team. How small is that? Would you think it was a small mistake if you were the paddler who missed out? I think not.
As for the people who run the event, this topic wouldn't have existed if they had simply followed the rules.
Davebrads.... well said! That is exactly how I feel because at the end of the day it is a form of cheating, and nobody likes a cheat!
Re. the 'small mistakes'. The decision made could have resulted in a different line up on the GB team. How small is that? Would you think it was a small mistake if you were the paddler who missed out? I think not.
As for the people who run the event, this topic wouldn't have existed if they had simply followed the rules.
Davebrads.... well said! That is exactly how I feel because at the end of the day it is a form of cheating, and nobody likes a cheat!
He thrusts his fists against the post and still insists he sees the ghost.
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Paul_M
I was under the impression that the jury was there to uphold the rules and not bend them. I understand that protest time was over when the protest was put in and therefore should have not been accepted under ANY cirumstances. What happens if this should happen again? How many times will the rules be bent? I don't see the point in having rules if people are not going abide by them! 
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Bus Driver
- Posts: 61
- Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2004 9:50 pm
Ladies and gentlemen of our sport.
This thread has rattled a few cages by the sound of things and I for one am not going to make comment on the rights and wrongs. What I am going to say is this: as a volunteer who helps and officiates at events, i, as have many others, have noticed a rise in the amount of abuse and criticism that we are expected to accept from some of the parents/supporters of competitors. We are humans and as such look for what we believe to be the best and most fair solution to a problem at the time. This may not suit everyone but that is life, that is why the human race is deemed to be intelligent.
If this situation continues, (abuse etc) the logical conclusion is that volunteers won't volunteer, if enough drop out, you won't have any races and therefore nothing to worry/winge about!?!?
If the cap fits..........
This thread has rattled a few cages by the sound of things and I for one am not going to make comment on the rights and wrongs. What I am going to say is this: as a volunteer who helps and officiates at events, i, as have many others, have noticed a rise in the amount of abuse and criticism that we are expected to accept from some of the parents/supporters of competitors. We are humans and as such look for what we believe to be the best and most fair solution to a problem at the time. This may not suit everyone but that is life, that is why the human race is deemed to be intelligent.
If this situation continues, (abuse etc) the logical conclusion is that volunteers won't volunteer, if enough drop out, you won't have any races and therefore nothing to worry/winge about!?!?
If the cap fits..........
In motor sport which I officiated in for nearly 30 years at club & international level we had a similar problem with the timing of protests.
This was quickly resolved by simply signing and timing the bottom of the results sheet by a race official with the words "Provisional Result's Posted @ xx.xxhrs signed xxxxx" the clock for protest time started from then.
This combat's any arguement on exactly what time they were posted, as many results stystems do not print the time on result's this should be a fool proof method.
With regard to video evidence, I beleive it would be a good and fair way to assist the jury in making a decision.
The problem comes is that it would have to be done by an official and it would require quite a few people with camera's to cover a course, especially at places like Washburn where there is bends in the river and trees and no point where the whole river can be filmed by one person, (unless of course someone would like to offer a helicopter) plus you usually have more than one paddler on the course, so this will put an additional strain on the volunteers that we are already short on.
In the intrim perhaps the slalom committee may look at using video evidence from supporters cameras as an aid for a jury to make a decision?
This was quickly resolved by simply signing and timing the bottom of the results sheet by a race official with the words "Provisional Result's Posted @ xx.xxhrs signed xxxxx" the clock for protest time started from then.
This combat's any arguement on exactly what time they were posted, as many results stystems do not print the time on result's this should be a fool proof method.
With regard to video evidence, I beleive it would be a good and fair way to assist the jury in making a decision.
The problem comes is that it would have to be done by an official and it would require quite a few people with camera's to cover a course, especially at places like Washburn where there is bends in the river and trees and no point where the whole river can be filmed by one person, (unless of course someone would like to offer a helicopter) plus you usually have more than one paddler on the course, so this will put an additional strain on the volunteers that we are already short on.
In the intrim perhaps the slalom committee may look at using video evidence from supporters cameras as an aid for a jury to make a decision?
Paddle fast,,,Paddle safe Yorkshire Canoe Coaching
The only problem with using cameras from supporters is that not everyone would be getting filmed the whole way down, so again it would not present a level playing field.
When and why did everything start getting so competitive? I personally preferred life in Div 2 when there wasn't any of this nonsense (and of course I could win a few races!).
When and why did everything start getting so competitive? I personally preferred life in Div 2 when there wasn't any of this nonsense (and of course I could win a few races!).
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Paddler_78
At the graveyard race on the saturday the changes that were going to be made on the sunday were posted up around the site. I then saw at least 5 prem paddlers who were competing in the judges category on the saturday blatently practicing the moves that were going to be in the course for the prem. If that isn't cheating then i don't know what is.
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feel the need to speak
right, this is for the original topic about the protests over selection. I know who what where etc of the topic.
I am writing just to say thanks to Mrs H for putting people straight about the coach thing. The coach had nothing to do with the protest.So much that he didn't realise that the paddler involved had put one in till a paddler later told him at least an hour after the protest had been posted
This topic seems to be causing some "BEEF". I totally understand why, and about the GB teams. I think that the teams published might have a slight mistake in them, but time will tell. Could just be me being wrong. But if they have got it wrong then it wont of made too much difference to the GB team.
I have heard alot of these comments on the river bank such as cheat etc. I do think its wrong but, i have myself told the paddler what i think. Why cant anyone else??? instead of just talking about it on here. Not saying the whole thing isn't up for discussion, but i think that considering the paddler does not read the bulletin boards then i think some views should be said to the people involved.
I dont mean at all to cause any trouble with anyone on this board and discussion but i feel the need to of said this.
Also just like to say thank you for a well organised and exciting selection junior series and how the judges plus everyone involved have done a cracking job
I am writing just to say thanks to Mrs H for putting people straight about the coach thing. The coach had nothing to do with the protest.So much that he didn't realise that the paddler involved had put one in till a paddler later told him at least an hour after the protest had been posted
This topic seems to be causing some "BEEF". I totally understand why, and about the GB teams. I think that the teams published might have a slight mistake in them, but time will tell. Could just be me being wrong. But if they have got it wrong then it wont of made too much difference to the GB team.
I have heard alot of these comments on the river bank such as cheat etc. I do think its wrong but, i have myself told the paddler what i think. Why cant anyone else??? instead of just talking about it on here. Not saying the whole thing isn't up for discussion, but i think that considering the paddler does not read the bulletin boards then i think some views should be said to the people involved.
I dont mean at all to cause any trouble with anyone on this board and discussion but i feel the need to of said this.
Also just like to say thank you for a well organised and exciting selection junior series and how the judges plus everyone involved have done a cracking job
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Slalom_paddler
Bill Denboro wrote:First of all congratulations to the paddlers who were selected after the weekends results to represent Britain this summer.
Also can I ask if anyone does respond to this topic please don’t name any paddlers as this is not fair on anyone.
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Read the underlined bit anon
Before you judge a man, walk a mile in his shoes. After that, who cares?... He's a mile away and you've got his shoes.