I beleive that it is very important that all boat's have at least stern airbags fitted, no matter what level you compete at in the UK.
I know that some EU countries do not permit them, but whist in this country we should make this rule compulsory to protect the paddlers who have to rescue a boat in the event of a swim.
Slalom boats tend to be high volume which means they hold a lot of water as well as air, if you have ever tried to rescue a boat which is making it's own way down a course, you tell me which one is easy to rescue one with or one without airbags?
Remember you are putting your life at risk rescuing a boat???
Airbags in boats at all UK event's
Paddle fast,,,Paddle safe Yorkshire Canoe Coaching
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guest
Safety should come first in all aspects of canoeing.
Even the best paddlers swim sometimes!!!
Whilst I agree with Dave that slalom is a competive sport otherwise why would people do it? would you rather put someone elses life at risk trying to rescue a boat full of water with no airbags or rescue a boat half full of water??
Curling a boat is certainly a skill that can be learnt, this is usually taught when doing a Canoe Safety Test, but how many slalom paddlers have done this?? at the lower level in the Div 3/4 and possibly in the Div 2 some of the competitors are not old enough to do the CST and we rely on the "two boat rule" for safety most of the time at the finish.
The other thought is do you want your £800.00 + nice new slalom boat rescueing or would you like to see it float out to sea? most insurance companies do not cover boats for loss or damage when they are on the water or being used for the purpose they were intended.
So think long & hard about airbags, they have saved more boats than have been lost!
Even the best paddlers swim sometimes!!!
Whilst I agree with Dave that slalom is a competive sport otherwise why would people do it? would you rather put someone elses life at risk trying to rescue a boat full of water with no airbags or rescue a boat half full of water??
Curling a boat is certainly a skill that can be learnt, this is usually taught when doing a Canoe Safety Test, but how many slalom paddlers have done this?? at the lower level in the Div 3/4 and possibly in the Div 2 some of the competitors are not old enough to do the CST and we rely on the "two boat rule" for safety most of the time at the finish.
The other thought is do you want your £800.00 + nice new slalom boat rescueing or would you like to see it float out to sea? most insurance companies do not cover boats for loss or damage when they are on the water or being used for the purpose they were intended.
So think long & hard about airbags, they have saved more boats than have been lost!
Paddle fast,,,Paddle safe Yorkshire Canoe Coaching
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Harold
I think the swimmer's life is far more at risk than the person who is rescuing the boat.
If anything, you should be trying to get the local lifesaving club to help out at events. What difference are airbags going to have for someone who swims on the top half of the course? The boat is going to be just as damaged by the time it gets to the finish where the previous two paddlers are waiting.
If anything, you should be trying to get the local lifesaving club to help out at events. What difference are airbags going to have for someone who swims on the top half of the course? The boat is going to be just as damaged by the time it gets to the finish where the previous two paddlers are waiting.
There again a sensitive issue.
It was nice to see safety boats being used at points up and down the course at Tully and again this weekend at Sowerby Bridge.
The use of these can be invaluable and the volunteers that spent most of the day on the water should be commended.
Let's hope that this example will continue with for the rest of the season.
It was nice to see safety boats being used at points up and down the course at Tully and again this weekend at Sowerby Bridge.
The use of these can be invaluable and the volunteers that spent most of the day on the water should be commended.
Let's hope that this example will continue with for the rest of the season.
Paddle fast,,,Paddle safe Yorkshire Canoe Coaching
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Dutch Geezer
- Posts: 119
- Joined: Thu May 27, 2004 5:26 pm
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I'm reading the various entries on this thread and I think you can see the people who compete in slalom and the people who paddle in other disciplnes, trying to apply logic which works in those disciplnes.
When the BCU director died at HPP, the thing that may have saved him was airbags or a bouyancy aid. People still compete at HPP in Sprint boats without airbags and without bouyancy aids, the rules have not been changed to make them compulsory.
Here are some questions for people to consider, before we start talking ourselves into making slalom a health and safety nightmare.
If a competitor swims, who's the priority, safety of a rescuer, safety of the swimmer or safety of the boat.
You dont risk your life to save a boat, its expensive but it can be replaced.
you also dont put yourself in danger to rescue a swimmer, Its tragic if one person should die, but all the safety rules for any incident state, check for hazard, dont put yourself at risk, dont become a victim yourself.
Slalom rules already cover the swimmer, two boats on the finish at all times, why the finish, usually its slack water. If the swimmer gets into difficulties above the finish then its no different to a whitewater river trip, you do your best to get the person to safety without putting anyone else in danger.
Maybe organisers should look at the potentially dangerous points on the course and have a plan including prepositioned safety equipment to deal with a situation at those points should an incident arise.
If you use a paddler in a boat for safety cover, at various points on the course, does he need to be qualified and if so, to what level.
How many slalom paddlers in Britain in recent years have died during a UK competition after taking a swim. I'm not talking about people training on sites where events are held.
I can understand how parents feel watching their child paddle down a big river, take a swim, loose their boat and paddle and then struggle to get to the bank. Usually they are lucky and everything survives, but boats are vunerable, airbags do help the boat to float, so if you think your child might swim, then make them paddle with airbags, but dont expect the rules to be changed just so you dont have to make that decision and upset your kid. If you think your child is not up to the river, then dont let them compete.
Please do not introduce more and more safety rules into a sport which has a pretty good safety record, because you do not want to be the one to say no.
When the BCU director died at HPP, the thing that may have saved him was airbags or a bouyancy aid. People still compete at HPP in Sprint boats without airbags and without bouyancy aids, the rules have not been changed to make them compulsory.
Here are some questions for people to consider, before we start talking ourselves into making slalom a health and safety nightmare.
If a competitor swims, who's the priority, safety of a rescuer, safety of the swimmer or safety of the boat.
You dont risk your life to save a boat, its expensive but it can be replaced.
you also dont put yourself in danger to rescue a swimmer, Its tragic if one person should die, but all the safety rules for any incident state, check for hazard, dont put yourself at risk, dont become a victim yourself.
Slalom rules already cover the swimmer, two boats on the finish at all times, why the finish, usually its slack water. If the swimmer gets into difficulties above the finish then its no different to a whitewater river trip, you do your best to get the person to safety without putting anyone else in danger.
Maybe organisers should look at the potentially dangerous points on the course and have a plan including prepositioned safety equipment to deal with a situation at those points should an incident arise.
If you use a paddler in a boat for safety cover, at various points on the course, does he need to be qualified and if so, to what level.
How many slalom paddlers in Britain in recent years have died during a UK competition after taking a swim. I'm not talking about people training on sites where events are held.
I can understand how parents feel watching their child paddle down a big river, take a swim, loose their boat and paddle and then struggle to get to the bank. Usually they are lucky and everything survives, but boats are vunerable, airbags do help the boat to float, so if you think your child might swim, then make them paddle with airbags, but dont expect the rules to be changed just so you dont have to make that decision and upset your kid. If you think your child is not up to the river, then dont let them compete.
Please do not introduce more and more safety rules into a sport which has a pretty good safety record, because you do not want to be the one to say no.
Well said, Dutch Geezer, my sentiments entirely. Priority has been and should be given to getting the paddler out, not the kit.
I reckon I can count on one hand the number of boats I've seen lost or damaged beyond repair in 16 years of paddling at premier races. I've only seen two potentially fatal accidents at races since I started slalom 23 years ago, neither of which would've been prevented by having airbags. Not exactly a safety crisis then!
Also, if airbags are to be used, I would've thought an even distribution through the boat be best, not just having them at one end. This seems to me to be asking for a boat to be broken or stuck in the river bed. You'd be better off not having them at all.
I reckon I can count on one hand the number of boats I've seen lost or damaged beyond repair in 16 years of paddling at premier races. I've only seen two potentially fatal accidents at races since I started slalom 23 years ago, neither of which would've been prevented by having airbags. Not exactly a safety crisis then!
Also, if airbags are to be used, I would've thought an even distribution through the boat be best, not just having them at one end. This seems to me to be asking for a boat to be broken or stuck in the river bed. You'd be better off not having them at all.
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Andy Greensmith
Personally, if i was going to swim i'd be much more confident about my boat surviving if it DIDN'T have airbags. As frontman says the airbags go in the back of the boat so when its full of water it bobs along with the frontend fully submerged, begging to be snapped off. I there are no airbags then the boat will simply float along flat and providing it doesn't hit any rocks that are above the surface it'll be fine.
I'll admitt that i've seen a few boats look like they could sink and they can sucked down in the stoppers, however i'm still sure that airbags can cause more problems than they cure.
I suppose it comes down to personal preference and confidence. I'm sure other people will disagree with my views but it would take some serious arguement to alter my views.
I'll admitt that i've seen a few boats look like they could sink and they can sucked down in the stoppers, however i'm still sure that airbags can cause more problems than they cure.
I suppose it comes down to personal preference and confidence. I'm sure other people will disagree with my views but it would take some serious arguement to alter my views.
Each to their own view's on the subject.
Personally a lot of our club paddlers have taken the decesion that if a boat has not got airbags in they will not even try to rescue it on courses like Tully, Hpp, Tryweryn etc. they will only look after the paddler.
Good business for the suppliers of slalom boats!
If you were doing a river trip 99% of the time in a short plastic boat that is less liable to damage! you would not think of setting off without airbags, so what is the differance?
Has anyone looked at the BCU H&S policy for events lately???
Personally a lot of our club paddlers have taken the decesion that if a boat has not got airbags in they will not even try to rescue it on courses like Tully, Hpp, Tryweryn etc. they will only look after the paddler.
Good business for the suppliers of slalom boats!
If you were doing a river trip 99% of the time in a short plastic boat that is less liable to damage! you would not think of setting off without airbags, so what is the differance?
Has anyone looked at the BCU H&S policy for events lately???
Paddle fast,,,Paddle safe Yorkshire Canoe Coaching
The difference Geebs between a river trip and a slalom is that at a slalom, if you let go of your boat it is less likely to be lost completely, and there is not the long walk in wet gear to contemplate. How many slalom courses are more than a few hundred yards from warmth and shelter or at least a car?
How many slalom courses have serious stretches of river that are difficult to execute a rescue on? Sorry, can't think of any.
None of the playboaters/river runners I know use airbags. I would only contemplate their use if I was going to run some serious stretch of river, say where getting pinned is a real possibility, and significantly harder than any river currently used in this country for slalom.
By the way, airbags are compulsory in river racing partly for the reasons I've outline above i.e. isolation of the paddler as some races are literally in the middle of nowhere, and partly because a river racing boat is so much larger volume, and thus harder to deal with than a slalom boat.
As I said before, the number of boats damaged by paddlers swimming is absolutely tiny compared with the damage done to boats in the process of racing. The worst damage I've done to a boat has always been whilst I've been in it! So, no, I don't think manufacturers will be exactly cashing in because of boat damage!
How many slalom courses have serious stretches of river that are difficult to execute a rescue on? Sorry, can't think of any.
None of the playboaters/river runners I know use airbags. I would only contemplate their use if I was going to run some serious stretch of river, say where getting pinned is a real possibility, and significantly harder than any river currently used in this country for slalom.
By the way, airbags are compulsory in river racing partly for the reasons I've outline above i.e. isolation of the paddler as some races are literally in the middle of nowhere, and partly because a river racing boat is so much larger volume, and thus harder to deal with than a slalom boat.
As I said before, the number of boats damaged by paddlers swimming is absolutely tiny compared with the damage done to boats in the process of racing. The worst damage I've done to a boat has always been whilst I've been in it! So, no, I don't think manufacturers will be exactly cashing in because of boat damage!
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Andy Greensmith
A plastic boat full of water without airbags is a nightmare to empty especially if like me you're not particularly strong. Air bags are not just there to make the boat float, it means that there is less space for the water to go when swamped so making it easier to rescue.
As for slalom boats.. it's personal preference. At the end of the day, places like Tryweryn and Tully will gobble slalom boats whatever you do. Moral of the story... learn to roll!
As for slalom boats.. it's personal preference. At the end of the day, places like Tryweryn and Tully will gobble slalom boats whatever you do. Moral of the story... learn to roll!
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canoebabe88
- Posts: 76
- Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2004 1:12 pm
