Airbags in boats at all UK event's

Benston · Post by **Benston** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 8:53 pm

i have air bags in my C1 but only so when i fill my boat up with water the front doesn't sink and you can do monsterous squirts.

Geebs · Post by **Geebs** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 12:28 am

Well said Kev S, it does make the job of rescue easier for all concerned.

Well done for volunteering to do rescue for the Div 2 @ HPP, I think you may be busy, but I hope not.

There was a move and I beleive still, is for paddlers on World Class Start to have airbags fitted, what a good idea

Kev.S · Post by **Kev.S** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 12:17 pm

Thank's Geebs, the club I belong to also insist on airbags in boats, and as you rightly state, people should have enough common sense to deflate bags when not in use especially in hot weather.

As for volunteering for rescue at HPP thats another matter, press ganged would be a better choice of words.

All you Div 2 paddlers out there come and have a go 18th - 19th of June at HPP Nottingham its allways a good slalom.

Dont forget your airbags. :p

lil smurf · Post by **lil smurf** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 11:42 am

I still dont believe in haveing air bags in my boat! - this is my reason a good one i think!...if you have air bags in the back of your boat (the ones i have seen only have them in the back) then when the front fills with water your bow sinks- ok for notts but what about bala etc the bow could get stuck in rocks and snap. 2) if the bow is heavyer it could pull more of the boat down on a rock so it will still get pinned. 3) it is harder to rescue and empty in the river as the bow always sinks as its heaveyer so you cant lift it at the centeral point of the boat allowing water out before you lift it so you could also say its risking your back!

davebrads · Post by **davebrads** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 12:28 pm

Although I am against airbags myself, I think lil's arguments don't stand up to scrutiny. A boat with airbags only in the back does not float bow down, but stern up. In other words, the bow is not lower in the water (it still has the same amount of flotation in it whether airbags are fitted in the back or not), but the back floats higher.

From experience, I can assure you that the boat is easier to rescue and empty if airbags are fitted, even if they are only in the stern. A boat without airbags will not balance when you try to pick it up at the cockpit, as all the water runs to one end or the other.

The safe way to empty a boat is to initially lift it (gently) at the cockpit until as much water as possible empties out of the boat. The boat should then be droppped back in the water upside down, and one end dragged up the bank. The boat can then be lifted from the other end to empty the water. The problem is that at the bottom of HPP the boats tend to end up on the right hand bank, and it is very difficult (and dangerous) to retrieve a boat full of water up the vertical walls there. The best answer there is to get a couple of paddlers on the water to perform some kind of assisted X rescue to empty the water first, before dragging the boat up the side. Airbags certainly help in this situation, as the boat can be lifted by the bow by someone on the bank, and most of the water will empty out, allowing the boat to be lifted from the water.

I am not against airbags per se, I just don't feel there is a place for enforcing them in slalom. I believe that any paddlers who have a good chance of swimming should be told to fit them by their coaches or peers, expecially if they are paddling at sites where rescue is difficult, such as HPP or Washburn. At the end of the day, the only thing that is put at risk is the boat, and that should be enough to make paddlers think about fitting them anyway.

beefy · Post by **beefy** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 6:58 pm

i agree with dave:

for new padlers i think airbags are great!
BUT if you are not likley to wim then i dont feel they are necessary up to you really!

Mark D. · Post by **Mark D.** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 9:09 am

I think you have all got the wrong end of the stick. Airbags have nothing to do with the safety of the swimmer and very little to do with protecting the boat from damage. What they do do is to reduce the risk of injury to the rescuer.

Back injuries are still the greatest reason for the absence from the work place, and they tend to be long term. I have had my fare share of time working at outdoor centres and emptying swamped boats to know what a hazard they can be.

I agree with davebrads, boats are a lot easier to rescue with airbags. They also reduce the risk of back injuries. Granted, safe lifting and carrying practices are far more important (knees bent, back straight and all that), but how many people rescuing boats at slaloms have been on the safe lifting and carrying courses? Especially the juniors? ???

Train2Win · Post by **Train2Win** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 1:59 pm

Even if a boat has airbags then it'll still be heavy enough to possibly cause a back injury when lifting.

Another point is that top paddlers in the men's K1 and C1 are almost certain not to swim. Therefore why penelise them by making them fit airbags which are only uselful for, let's face it, juniors, novices and girls, who are the ones that swim. I have never seen a Prem man swin at an event and I've been in the sport for quite a long time. So why make all paddlers have airbags? Why not just continue to encourage those who feel they may possibly swim fit airbags?

Dave Royle · Post by **Dave Royle** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 9:56 pm

Does anyone remember Ferrazi swimming at Llangollen all those years ago. He was pretty good

Geebs · Post by **Geebs** » Sun Jun 19, 2005 10:54 pm

I would just like to say what a fantastic job the rescue crew did this weekend @ HPP.

I heard you were busy on Saturday and on Sunday when we were there you certainly did a great job ???

The safety on the event was a great example to all slalom competition organisers, well done and I am sure the paddlers that you rescued are very grateful.

Who said Div 1 paddlers don't swim???

Kev.S · Post by **Kev.S** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 8:42 am

Thanks for the vote of confidence Geebs.

Allthough I have to admit, the heat got to me on Sunday and I missed a Div. 1 lady on the office giving her an interesting swim through the Muncher.

Also very disconcerting pulling my own daughter out on Saturdays Div 2, who I may add did have airbags fitted, and I can assure the critics her boat did not go down the course like a cork.

And thanks to my fellow club members further down the course, I believe all boats were pulled out intact.

Geebs · Post by **Geebs** » Thu Jun 23, 2005 12:55 am

Yes it was a bit on the warm side on Sunday.

I am glad to say that neither of my two daughters swam, although one seemed to spend most of her time doing victory roll's before the finish :laugh:

But it was reassuring that your team were there doing a great job.

Are you free for Washburn 9/10 July???

emma mchale · Post by **emma mchale** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 11:42 pm

Sorry to put a damper on things, but there was a few problems on the Saturday at Hpp, such as some people not having safety.But that was mainly because some lazy judges couldn't be bothered to do their stint of safety. I have to applaude the organisers of the last evnt though. Amazing organisers and the time before that even. I think the courses get more annoyingly difficult every time.

Kev.S · Post by **Kev.S** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 9:39 am

Emma I am curious of your comments about lack of rescue on the Saturday, we were positioned above and below the office on both banks according to the direction of the flow of the water.

We were also positioned below the Muncher on the left hand bank, we had two safety boats on the water also below the muncher, and supposedly two competitors on the finish line, except the ones who could not be bothered and got off (they know who they are)

I would like to know where else you think we should have been, and I will pass on your comments to my committee. ???

emma mchale · Post by **emma mchale** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 11:13 am

Hm.... I was commenting about when the competition started and no one was on for safety at the bottom, i think it was after the judges runs.But yes, most of the time there were people on being safety. I can remember my HPP slalom. No one was there to help at all. My dad had to get me out by himself from the side. So the safety cover is getting better.