Airbags in boats at all UK event's

[Gill]

I think airbags should be placed in boats of people likely to swim.

No, it doesn't affect the paddlers safety, we all know they are priority and should be off the water first.

But what about the rescuer emptying the boat ?
Having been a coach for a number of years, and having had my fair share of rescuing boats, I know it is quicker and easier to rescue a boat with airbags, hence minimising the risk to the rescuer. Also it reduces the chance of back injuries of which I've suffered.
If as an adult and a coach, I find it harder to rescue swamped boats with no airbags, then how do you expect a J12 to do it?

Think about the rescuer, would you want your ten year old trying to rescue a heavy swamped boat?
I sit at the finish line at some events and look round, some of these kids would not have a clue how to rescue a boat, nether mind how to do a curl (as previously suggested). This is taught on the CST - Minimum age of 14.

Perhaps in addition to having airbags for people most likely to swim, we could train our junior paddlers how to rescue boats, as they're expected to rescue as they sit on the finish line, but how many really know how to do it, and how many are confident in doing it ?

[Train2Win]

I think its a good idea to teach juniors how to rescue boats, I was encouraged to take the star tests when I was younger and it really helps you to get a grasp of basic safety techniques.

As for safety at HPP it was ok on the whole I thought. Apart from one incident I saw where a women swam by the pyramid block and the guy with a throw line on the far back just stood there looking gormless, instead of throwing the throwline across the river or going over the bridge and throwing it from the pyramid block side.

Maybe safety should be given a quick run down of how to use throw bags?

[guest]

In stead of slating the rescue, perhaps train to win should have gone up to control and offered his services, I am sure it would have been welcome.

As usual it is left to a hand full of people, who without, there would be no rescue.

[Geebs]

I think its a good idea to teach juniors how to rescue boats, I was encouraged to take the star tests when I was younger and it really helps you to get a grasp of basic safety techniques.

As for safety at HPP it was ok on the whole I thought. Apart from one incident I saw where a women swam by the pyramid block and the guy with a throw line on the far back just stood there looking gormless, instead of throwing the river or going over the bridge and throwing it from the pyramid block side.

Maybe safety should be given a quick run down of how to use throw bags?

As a coach who is at HPP at least once a week coaching all ranges of paddlers, I agree that people should be encouraged to do their star test's and CST, this would teach them 'Good Practice' to mimimize the risks to themselves and others.

With regard to standing on the far side from the pyramid and throwing a bag to rescue someone is impractical it is to far to throw a bag, also so is running over the bridge, this then put's the rescuer in a difficult situation.

I'm with Gill and the rest of the sane one's I have been paddling for 35 years and my crystal ball never told me if I would swim or not ???

[Geebs]

Just a point at the Div1 at Washburn this weekend we had 17 swimmers at the little weir, a few at the top section at gate 6 and some at the finish this was just on the Saturday!

I would like to say a big thank you to the rescue crew that worked very hard to save the paddler's and did a great job.

I will let them put there own comment's on regarding Air Bag's in boats and whether or not it made their life easier in rescuing the boat as well as the swimmer.

But well done guy's you did a great job and thank you.

Graeme

[RESCUE RANGERS]

we save people and boats, we prefer air bags because it makes rescues that much easier, and for those who don't realise you can get them for the front as well as the back.
I've paddled all disciplines and can say without doubt unless your in the top 20 paddlers air bags really are a good idea, as for the top 20 they can usually get another boat from their sponsor, and should'nt be swimming anyway.

[frontman2]

First of all, I'm really amazed that so many people swam at a Div1 race. What ever happened to rolling? We've all ended up swimming at times over the years, but 17 swimmers on the little weir at Washburn (and others during the weekend) is slightly worrying. What was going on?

Secondly, how many races in this country are on rough enough water to regularly write off swimmer's boats (and I mean damage beyond just the cosmetic)? Very few in my experience.

[Kev.S]

I am suprised at Frontman2's response to the amount of swimmers, has he forgotten that step from Div 2 to Div 1.

Most of the swimmers, who,with out sounding sexist were young girls that have yet to develop there white water skills.

Most of them probably can roll I know my daughter can, but can he remember how many swims he had before gaining the confidence to roll in anger.

As for the little weir I assume we are talking about the one with the stopper with attitude, and again a lot of these kids have not been taught to deal with such situations, or even been in that situation before.

So come on Frontman2 give the kids a break and give them time to learn.

On a lighter note, well done Geebs your rescue team were on the ball. :p

[frontman2]

Well, I didn't quite expect a reaction like that! I was just surprised there were so many problems on the river. I'm not having a go at anyone at all.

When I started slalom, Div2 races were held on many of the sites used for Div1/Prem, so there was not so much of a step up, and most paddlers could already roll confidently. I don't think I swam during a race when I paddled kayak, but I've made up for it though since paddling C2, as I'm sure frontman will remind me. :laugh:

Sounds like the rescue guys had busy day anyway, so well done.

[Kev.S]

I fully agree, races used to be held on harder water for the lower divisions, but unfortunately we have lost a lot of venues.

Also these days it is not so difficult for the kids to get to Div 1, and when they do, it is very often the case that they have little or no white water expierience. Hence the problem with swimming.

I simply wished to point out that these youngsters suddenly find themselves thrown in the deep end and it takes a while for them to get used to it, which brings us back to the original point of why they should use airbags. ???

[RESCUE RANGER]

Having been to several slaloms in the last few years after a prolonged retirement from the sport, I have noticed a marked difference in standards from when I used to compete. Coaching is definatley of a much higher standard with many young paddlers out classing the seniors. But I must point out that their river reading and river skills seem to be very much neglected. Not one of the weekends swimmers new to sit forward to control their boats in the stopper or had any real idea of how to extricate themselves from the situation. It is all well and good being fast and clean to coin the old phrase, but being able to recover from a mishap or unforseen hole ride session can go along way to boosting confidence and skill. Maybe if coaches taught more river skills along with their other very good speed and technical skills the UK slalom scene could be as dominant in the world as in the early 80's.
Just my personal opinion and fee free to disagree.

[Ian]

Slalom paddlers are athletes competing in an olympic event. The further away from Olympic rules that we are taken the less prepared our athletes will be. Have you noticed the difference in volume between races abroad and our own, rather poor efforts? We have the safest courses in the world thanks to our excessive compensation culture. Don't you dare encourage further nonsense.

[frontman2]

Although moving off topic a bit, I do think it's very important to paddle lots of different rough water, and to add general "play" sessions into a training schedule. Surfing waves, sitting in stoppers, etc, not only teaches technique, but is good aerobic exercise, and confidence building.

These are essential to develop if a paddler has aspirations of racing abroad, where, as Ian says, the water is generally more challenging. When you look at continental race sties, there seems to be much less emphasis on safety, more on making them as mean as possible for a given volume of water. We tend to make ours cater for as many abilities as possible which is always a compromise.

[Paul]

If by nonsense, you mean the use of airbags, I cannot understand why anyone would object to lower divisions having airbags as a compulsory measure, and from what happened at Washburn half the Div. 1 could do with them.

[Dutch Geezer]

If you want to fit airbags, fit them, Personal choice.

If you dont want to rescue a boat because it has not got airbags fitted, then dont, again personal choice.

Please give everyone their own personal choice regarding this subject, dont force your own opinion on everyone else.

And before anyone claims that I have a vested interest in not having airbags fitted, I have had up to 6 demo boats out this year, none fitted with airbags, paddled by people of all abilities, no one who wanted to try them asked about airbags or offerred to put their own bags in. Maybe people only care when its their own property. Oh and I pay for my demo boats, I dont get them for free.

Another thought, air bags may save your boat if you swim and its swamped going down a river, but when you are paddling and hit rocks the added rigidity that the pressure of the airbag puts into the hull may cause more damage to the boat than a hull which can flex.