Demotions - ??????????

phatboy · Post by **phatboy** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 10:25 pm

Does anyone know what figures are looking like in the dreaded demotion area? Im on borderline of the superstitions that have gone around but i would like to know for sure if possible???

Im sure theres plenty of others wondering the same thing too!!!

Cheers

Phatty..

Nick Penfold · Post by **Nick Penfold** » Mon Nov 12, 2007 9:24 pm

I'm working on it. The good news is that slowing promotion down a bit has helped a lot, and I think the numbers going down will be quite like last year, not carnage.

Geebs · Post by **Geebs** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 12:33 pm

Nick

Some of the people that are due for possible demotion may have given up the sport, is it fair to demote these paddlers giving the competing paddlers that have worked hard to get where they are lower bib No's for next season without asking the demotees if the are going to continue?

Otherwise it seem to make a bit of a mockery of the ranking system?

John Sturgess · Post by **John Sturgess** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 8:02 pm

Granted that some paddlers are demoted because they have already given up - 30% - 40% - from Div 1, some also give up because they are demoted.

Not from vanity, butbecause the way our system works we are telling people who are demoted that they can no longer race on the sort of water they want to race on.

This, like many other regularly-debated questions, would go way if we stopped using our ranking system for a purpose for which it is not fit: deciding who should be allowed to race on what water.

Username · Post by **Username** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 11:42 am

Do we know who is being demoted yet? I don't want to be, it's all flat in div 2

katonas · Post by **katonas** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 12:46 am

If your're in danger of being demoted /raced only a few times but achieved 500 points in a single race, 800 in 2 or 900 in your best 3 races, I'd ask if you could be allowed to remain. Common sense might prevail...

66-1146487544 · Post by **66-1146487544** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 1:30 pm

Demotions have already been published on the front page. If people want demotions sorting differently in future years then they need to submit a motion to the ACM by 28th October 2008 at the latest.

Slow_n_dirty · Post by **Slow_n_dirty** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 1:44 pm

There are some very reasoned arguements on here. However in order to get changes in the rules. You should get your club representatives to propose a motion at ACMs. It was disappointing to see such a low turn out last weekend.

If any paddler has been demoted to a division, they feel they can make good case for staying up (such as injury, or being in the Armed Forces) they can write to the ranking complier, for consideration. However just because you only made it to one or two races is hardly a valid reason. You either want to be in the sport or you don't. If you can only do one race and what to paddle on decent water, do Judges at a Prem, I am sure the organising club would appreciate the extra help. In most cases the tables never lie. Those who train hard and go to lots of races and are consequently committed to the sport get promoted/stay up.

Nick Penfold · Post by **Nick Penfold** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 4:30 pm

Quite a lot of thought (and common sense, K) goes into end of year promotions and demotions; and anyone can have a look at the points and the individual results we base them on.
It's very difficult to be fair and transparent other than by drawing a line and demoting those below it, but as Slow n Dirty says there are reasons why exceptions can be made, and they have been - one injury, one military service this year. We also don't "draw the line" in a one-point gap.
And given the levels we set the line at it's unlikely that a paddler with a couple of good results will be caught anyway.

phatboy · Post by **phatboy** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 7:16 pm

well I think how its all panned out is fab because im never going to forget my bib numbers this season

my bib numbers are

C1 : 5
C2 : 5
K1 : 55

must be my lucky number for the next year!!

quaker · Post by **quaker** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 1:44 pm

Nick Penfold wrote:It's very difficult to be fair and transparent other than by drawing a line and demoting those below it, but as Slow n Dirty says there are reasons why exceptions can be made, and they have been - one injury, one military service this year.

Time for another outspoken view.... Sorry but those arguements don't really make any sense!

You could have a paddler that has been struggling to get to training because of work commitments, or someone who has carried a slight injury but paddled anyway that gets demoted, whilst someone who does 1 or 2 races and doesn't struggle on or adapt remains in the division. If this is fair then please explain why!

If those paddlers in question had got results of 200/300 points from one race would they have stayed up with the same exception? I suspect not!

katonas · Post by **katonas** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:57 am

Nick Penfold wrote:Quite a lot of thought (and common sense, K) goes into end of year promotions and demotions; and anyone can have a look at the points and the individual results we base them on.

I think you have done an excellent job. Its hard to comment fully because only total points are shown now, rather than individual races. I remember the Div1 RSC (what does it stand for anyway?) paddler having a score of over 500 points in 1 race, and the div2 end of season promotion to div1, was a paddler who well deserved to be in div1. It's interesting that the cut-off seems to be around 800 points, which is a lot lower than last yr. (I've only looked at K1M div1/2).

Canadian Paddler · Post by **Canadian Paddler** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 3:56 pm

RSC stands for Ranking Status Committee. The group you can apply to if you have not been ranked for a while, or have been unable to compete for teh majority of the season, where you are reranked depends on what you where doing, and why you have not paddled.

For example, in the 2006 season I only managed 1 event after dislocating my shoulder, and did badly there as I was actually returning to early, then work comitments meant I could not paddle the later half. So I applied for frozen status and got listed with DSC after my name.

This year I have not paddled kayak at all, so if I want to paddle next year will have to apply again and be put back in the ranking lists (again with RSC) at whereever the ranking status officer (and the committee) think right.

katonas · Post by **katonas** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 11:22 pm

For some strange reason my work computer linked me to an old version of this website. I could see the RSC paddler staying in div1 scored 673 points in his only race.

However paddlers in div2 K1M next yr with bibs 4 and 5, scored 587 and 549 points respectively in the single div1 race they competed in. So if you're in div2 K1M next yr, watch out for bibs 4 and 5. You might want to drill the odd hole... :;):

Perhaps div2 K1M paddlers should just count themselves lucky there were no div1 paddlers scoring 700-800 points in their only div1 race.