Cost of Fuel - Singles v Doubles

djberriman · Post by **djberriman** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 5:59 pm

"Perhaps those complaining of petrol costs should start doing a few judges runs in Prem or div2 events the day before or after the div1 race. The more judges there are, the shorter the stints, its free, fun, gives something back to the sport, and might even help their div1 runs. More paddlers from a club can attend a mixed division weekend, reducing fuel costs/head, and making it more sociable."

If your club has that many slalom paddlers (and in the right divisions) but I agree with what you are saying and do it wherever possible.

katonas · Post by **katonas** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 3:19 am

djberriman wrote:If your club has that many slalom paddlers

Unfortunately I'm the only paddler in my club attending slalom events. I'd happily give someone a lift if the detour wasn't too great, as long as they were willing to share diesel costs. Maybe at events paddlers willing to share transport could all write down their postcode/telephone numbers on a list viewable only by other paddlers ?

Dee · Post by **Dee** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 4:56 pm

[QUOTEPerhaps those complaining of petrol costs should start doing a few judges runs in Prem or div2 events the day before or after the div1 race. The more judges there are, the shorter the stints]

mmm... we went to a race not so long ago where the judging stint required in return for a judges run was 2hrs in the morning plus 3 hrs in the afternoon and, I think, that judges entries were closed a few days before the event. Obviously this is not representative, but 5 hours is enough to put anyone off.

[/QUOTE Dee you cant say that the bottom half of Div 1 do not put kayaking first ]

I didn't! Just 50% of div 1s - not necessarily all the bottom half. Obviously only an opinion from talking to people and may be less than accurate but still think it applies to a fair percentage

djberriman · Post by **djberriman** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 5:04 pm

"we went to a race not so long ago where the judging stint required in return for a judges run was 2hrs in the morning plus 3 hrs in the afternoon"

I think I judged at that one too, other judges appeared to get off very lightly with a couple of 30 minute sessions. Still it kept me out of trouble.

I was also timetabled to be on the water as soon as my judging finished too, so it was leg it back, get changed, run back, jump on the water and pretty much go, by the time I'd done that, checked my result, got changed and tried to get something to eat and drink I was due back on!

Generally its ok but organisers need to treat Judges fairly and try and avoid situations like this, similarly judges should ensure they do their stints. There are a few who never turn up, causing hassle for the organiser, annoying the judge they are supposed to relieve and often causing event delays. If you are signed on as a Judge ensure you know when and where the Judges meeting is (yes I know you have heard it all before but organisers like to see your face) and make sure you know when and where you are supposed to be judging and get there!

PaulBolton · Post by **PaulBolton** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:56 pm

I think I judged at that one too. I did a total of just under 6 hours judging in a day. To top it all, for half of my stint the Section Judge apeared to ignore every single input I made(maybe we should do away with gate jugdes and just have section judges!!). I'm pretty certain I won't be judging there next year - it was both painful and pointless!

katonas · Post by **katonas** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 9:33 pm

PaulBolton wrote:I did a total of just under 6 hours judging in a day.

What would have happened if you'd refused to judge that long?

surveyme · Post by **surveyme** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 4:33 am

Dee wrote:Perhaps the committee could consider dropping section judges for div 1 competitions (unless they are combined with prems), but continuing to provide a jury chair and possibly a second jury member.

This would reduce the overall workload for section judges but still ensure that an experience "eye" was involved in the race overall.

It could also potentially increase the number of ordinary judges as local section judges might choose to come and help anyway.

Perhaps the committee should get some more section judges qualified - that would put less pressure on those already in place. There has been a definate lack of "promotion" for this and those who want to go forward, don't necessarily get a chance to.

Why also does matching a double event HAVE to be linked to guaranteed water. Shepperton will almost certainly have the water, but the Environment Agency control the weir - I hope Anne's comments weren't aimed at this club, which has suffered in the past few years with thoughtlessness of training sessions being organised (not by Anne I would add) on their competition dates!

The cost of fuel (and reduction in disposal incomes generally) will be the most influencial factor for most in whether or not to attend an event. Surely if you want the sport to survive - both at a social and competitive level - MORE doubles (and other events) are necessary, perhaps by revisiting the "scoring and ranking" systems so an imbalance is addressed.

Geebs · Post by **Geebs** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:54 pm

surveyme wrote:
Dee wrote:Perhaps the committee could consider dropping section judges for div 1 competitions (unless they are combined with prems), but continuing to provide a jury chair and possibly a second jury member.

This would reduce the overall workload for section judges but still ensure that an experience "eye" was involved in the race overall.

It could also potentially increase the number of ordinary judges as local section judges might choose to come and help anyway.

Perhaps the committee should get some more section judges qualified - that would put less pressure on those already in place. There has been a definate lack of "promotion" for this and those who want to go forward, don't necessarily get a chance to.

Why also does matching a double event HAVE to be linked to guaranteed water. Shepperton will almost certainly have the water, but the Environment Agency control the weir - I hope Anne's comments weren't aimed at this club, which has suffered in the past few years with thoughtlessness of training sessions being organised (not by Anne I would add) on their competition dates!

The cost of fuel (and reduction in disposal incomes generally) will be the most influencial factor for most in whether or not to attend an event. Surely if you want the sport to survive - both at a social and competitive level - MORE doubles (and other events) are necessary, perhaps by revisiting the "scoring and ranking" systems so an imbalance is addressed.

Have you seen the judges paper to get appointed? It is akin to the Ark ambiguous and not what we should be looking for in the 21st century!

A decent paper with clear diagrams or a PowerPoint presentation or video should be used for this, it's a bit like Tutty outdated and obsolete!

Geebs · Post by **Geebs** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 12:57 am

Sorry if I have repeated this but Slalom events are too expensive, I run the BCU National Polo Club Championships and have done for the past 4 years, the entry fee per team is £75.00 and is the most expensive tournament in the British calendar, for this you get a guaranteed 30 mins competition on the water on Saturday and at least the same on Sunday 60 mins minimum, if you go onto the semi/finals you get more water time.

Also included is camping with full facilities, toilets, showers, changing rooms, boat storage, time keepers, referees, communication equipment, results, organisers and the charge for the venue. Cost per paddler based on 5 in a team (minimum) £15.00 for the weekend, most teams average 7 players cph £10.71, so more water time, better facilities reduced cost = MVFM!

This event is not subsidised by the BCU Polo Committee and does make a small profit which is plowed back into the sport.

So why are slalom event's so expensive for less facilities and less water/competition time?

Canadian Paddler · Post by **Canadian Paddler** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 7:06 pm

Back to less competition time, how long before we get a comparison of 100 meters vs marathon - they are both running races. BUT, Geebs, how much do the polo committee take from your event? The Slalom Admin Fee is quite a high percentage of entry fee for all but div 4, we always send more to Jim than the club keeps from the slaloms we run.

Munchkin · Post by **Munchkin** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 10:17 pm

A genuine question, why is the slalom admin fee such a high percentage?

Kazz · Post by **Kazz** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 10:43 pm

'Have you seen the judges paper to get appointed? It is akin to the Ark ambiguous and not what we should be looking for in the 21st century!
A decent paper with clear diagrams or a PowerPoint presentation or video should be used for this, it's a bit like Tutty outdated and obsolete! '

The judges exam does not identify those who are willing to provide their services as a section judge--many many individuals take the 'judges' exam but do not offer thier services--if its so easy why dont you do it and offer help instead of critisise those who do

Slow Paddler · Post by **Slow Paddler** » Sat Aug 02, 2008 7:05 pm

How do we become section judges?

Anne · Post by **Anne** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 8:52 am

Contact Jacky Wetzig or any of them at a Div 1 or prem. You will be welcomed with open arms!

Geebs · Post by **Geebs** » Thu Aug 07, 2008 1:44 am

Munchkin wrote:A genuine question, why is the slalom admin fee such a high percentage?

I note that no one has answered mine or Munchkin's question?