Veterans Proposal

The Doc · Post by **The Doc** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 11:02 am

As one of those purple bibs, I would like to add my comments. I think some very good points have been raised and the proposal put forward is basically OK.

Yes any Vets championship should be on water that 2/3 DVs/Vets can compete on and the fact that it is linked to the Junior Champs works well so lets not fix that, it ain't broke.

The British Open is the right place for the P/1 DVs/Vets to fight out the overall champ so lets leave that alone.

The age categories make sense whatever we call them, and let's be honest it doesn't really matter what they are called.

Now we come to the thorny issue of Vets, should they stay or go.
- If they go then we need to have a system where they can "compete" outside the division or we will lose people so have open classes at every race - yes this will potentially cause judging problems but you can't have it both ways;

- if you keep people as Vets, effectively competing "out of division" then you're right there are issues with prizes and points. Personally I have received a good share of prizes this year, I don't care about trophy hunting - its nice but not important. It will affect points though. How this can be addressed is not easy. Overall though the good paddlers will get promoted and bad ones demoted so having a small number of Vets protected from this will not alter things dramatically.

- Lets not forget a third option, leave things unchanged.

- whilst speaking about this around different slaloms, I have become aware of non-Vets who we have lost from the sport, particularly but not exclusively on promotion from 2 to 1. Is there therefore a need to think this one a little wider and have an "out of division class" where people regardless of age could register to compete out of the divisional system thus making it unnecessary to have Vets but also allowing those who don't want to compete in Div 1 to still take part in our sport. This would also solve the judging issue of running opens as those not registered wouldn't compete in this class.

What is important here, is whatever we do we need to recognise why people choose to be either Vets or DVs and we don't want to lose people from the sport

jke · Post by **jke** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 3:51 pm

If you compete out of division (and I can't see a problem with that), calling it Open or whatever, points are not an issue. If you want points you compete in division.

With an Open event you will get more competitors and a larger supply of judges.

Having two parallel races (V and DV) for competitors of the same age and ability just doesn't make sense.

Dee · Post by **Dee** » Sat Jul 12, 2008 11:24 am

[QUOTE With an Open event you will get more competitors and a larger supply of judges.]

Can you explain how you reach this conclusion. I would have thought that running an open would mean that many paddlers choose to pay for an open run rather than do an officials run and the number of available judges goes down.

djberriman · Post by **djberriman** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 11:39 pm

Given the option most paddlers I know will Judge rather than enter an open. Why spend all that money when you can race for free. You can still compare your time with any other paddler who raced in any division that you are interested in,

Dadstaxi · Post by **Dadstaxi** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 8:17 am

Agree with Dee.... it isn't that much to enter an Open comp compared to a Divisional race. Take the up and coming Washburn weekend. A Fiver to race the open on Saturday v's Fifteen pound + for a junior on the Sunday. Coupled with that - the flexibility to get away after your run if the weather is poor and/or you have got a distance to travel ie last Washburn Div2 vs sitting on the side of a cold wet riverbank to judge for 45 mins plus and to my mind the £5 is money well spent.

djberriman · Post by **djberriman** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 6:18 pm

That is easily solved, just put the cost up to the same level as whatever race the division is with the extra going to the organising club I'm sure they will welcome the extra income.

No offence meant (particularly to Dadstaxi) but whilst I can see there are sometimes valid reasons for avoiding judging and rushing off it does seem we have become like most other sports these days and are starting to see a turn up, get the paddling in and run attitude with some asking for back 2 back runs or early 2nd runs etc.

Question is if there were not an open would you have entered as a Judge? If not they have gained £5.

IMHO opinion its nice to put something back, take your time a bit, socialising and not rushing off means the whole weekend can be more enjoyable and relaxing (and better value for money). Leaving it to the few means long stints judging and still being there at 8 or 9 o'clock packing up wondering why you do it. As I say just MHO no offence meant.

(PS. thanks to all those who helped at Howsham it was amazing to be stripped down and off on our way so quickly - I was dreading it).

You can learn a lot by watching other paddlers race, similarly judging allows you to understand more about the rules - both missed opportunities if you rush off home.

Unfortunately the same happens in most sports I undertake these days, the unpaid voluntary organisers are treated like its a service/business and the punters demand a commercial level of service and expect everything laid on and ready to go.

mwilk · Post by **mwilk** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 11:27 am

Back to the thread.
There was quite a strong feeling in earlier discussions to increase the onset of Vet/DV status to 40. Or is it more important that we fit in with the European Championship age bandings ?

Jerry Tracey · Post by **Jerry Tracey** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 8:04 am

I support Phil Stevo's general proposals given at the start of this thread and look forward to being able to race under age categories. I would particularly welcome some form of championship event on Div 1/prem water, in addition to the current National Veterans arrangements - having age bands at the British Open at Llangollen would provide this nicely!
I was pleased to read that the European Senior Cup was a success and highly enjoyable. I considered going, but was put off when I saw the course advertised as 'Grade I-II', was this a false impression? Congatulatios to all involved!

djberriman · Post by **djberriman** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 11:51 pm

Pictures of the course for the European Vet champs.

http://www.facebook.com/album.p....8815936

Spiderman · Post by **Spiderman** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 9:47 pm

Bump!