Address /DOB should be omitted from entry cards. - Data protection

Dee · Post by **Dee** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 6:12 pm

Do you ensure no one could walk away with the cards or see the addresses at an event ?

Katonas. As a general rule only those involved in organisation or helping in control would have easy access to the cards, but if someone was fairly determined then they could walk off with one.

On the other hand do you really shred every letter and envelope you receive with your address on. If you send a letter to a friend do you ask them to shred your address. Have you never put a "return to sender" on an envelope with your address. There is being careful and being paranoid.

We take reasonable care with the cards, but there are limits to what can reasonably be achieved within the limitations of an event.

katonas · Post by **katonas** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 7:21 pm

Dee wrote:On the other hand do you really shred every letter and envelope you receive with your address on. If you send a letter to a friend do you ask them to shred your address. Have you never put a "return to sender" on an envelope with your address. There is being careful and being paranoid.

Dee - Please see reply to Ken above. Would you post an advert in the local newsagents to say you had just gone on holiday ?

PeterC · Post by **PeterC** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 2:33 am

I accept the need to keep data secure and not share it any more than needed for the purposes for which it was provided.

If a paddler is seriously injured and is carted off to hospital I can assure you that having the date of birth can be very useful in ensuring identification and enabling rapid access to records which may be held elsewhere providing important medical information.

I say this as one of those whom you may encounter providing that care.

I would assume that while this is hopefully an extremely rare event that paddlers would see this as a responsible use of information by event organisers and in their direct interest.

However as I noted earlier it would be possible to cope with age that year or as otherwise suggested year of birth.

katonas · Post by **katonas** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 9:28 pm

I accept personal information is important to contact family/obtain relevant medical records. Relying on the information on cards is not ideal. The information may be incomplete, illegible, or blown away.

Given the importance of the information, each organiser should have all the contact information of all paddlers available to them. Perhaps even contact details of other family members. This information would not be on public display.

Perhaps every paddler also has a responsibility to have personal information/contact details of relatives somewhere in their kit, whenever they paddle. This couldn't replace the above at events because organisers wouldn't know if a paddler had done so.

Dave Royle · Post by **Dave Royle** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 10:43 pm

Perhaps the way round this is to separate the two functions of the entry card.

A personal details form could be created which is sent in with each entry. This form would have address, DOB, BCU No, signature, next of kin and contact details. If distributed electronically entrants could print a few of and send one to race organisers as they enter. The organiser would keep the forms in a safe place and would send them on to the ranking list compilers with the score cards.

A single sided score card could be used for the scores which would have the details currently on the front of the card plus the Club and race to be entered.

Acceptance of the entry would be conditional on receiving the letter and the entry card.

There. Less filling in of the same old info on cards. Something I got pretty sick of doing over the years.

katonas · Post by **katonas** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 11:37 pm

Good idea Dave, maybe you could come up with a form which would print itself out 3 times on 1 side of A4.

What are the risks of organisers receiving a file from the ranking compilers, containing all the contact info of paddlers in all divisions? I'm all for using less paper, and the file could be password protected.

Dee · Post by **Dee** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 7:16 pm

I'd still like to see year of birth on the entry cards to make running the event easier, but certainly wouldn't be against two separate bits of paper.

Seedy Paddler · Post by **Seedy Paddler** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 2:18 pm

IMHO
Address on the card - as an organiser then it is relatively simple incomplete or no address - means that unless you are there at the prizegiving or have a willing mate then you lose out on prze/promotion certificate whatever?

DOB - no date of birth and you are S, I have seen far too many mistakes on age bandings to even remotely trust a marked age category

Checking with Ranking Compilers - no I have enough to do without running around checking to see if your entries are valid

2nd sheet of paper - again I have enough paper flying around and have no intention of trying to marry paper details to score cards

In terms of security, yes there is a risk that a Ned may find your address at a slalom site and have a mate by your home who can case the joint and see what is on offer! However as an Organiser my name and address is spread all over the tinterweb and published in several directories together with the dates - allowing neds local and far flung to work out that I won't be home that weekend. I think you are far more at risk by the fact the local neds casing your neighbourhood will see a car loaded with kit and boats and work out that when you move off you may be gone a while!

ID theft - there is a risk but then there are a range of ways to get name and address - check the local library and you will find the electoral role to start with. Similalry census details etc. You could even try the old faithful and google your own name or your postcode - provides some interesting reading.

In short this is a thread on paranoia

katonas · Post by **katonas** » Sat Dec 06, 2008 12:05 pm

Is it equally paranoid not to allow organisers an excel spreadsheet of all paddlers' contact details?

Should organisers have contact details of relatives in case of injury, rather than just the address/phone number of an empty house ?

Everyone has their own view/ perception of risk. From this discussion, it seems paddlers can choose for themselves, as long as they send a cheque with their entry. Organisers that insist on an address are forcing their opinions on those who might have concerns.

Dee · Post by **Dee** » Sat Dec 06, 2008 3:08 pm

Katonas,

The rules do require entry cards to be completed and address is on the card so I think it's unreasonable to say that

Organisers that insist on an address are forcing their opinions on those who might have concerns

. They are acting within the rules.

I also don't think it is true that

it seems paddlers can choose for themselves, as long as they send a cheque with their entry

- a high proportion of the cheques I receive are for the wrong amount and cheques have been known to bounce.

katonas · Post by **katonas** » Sat Dec 06, 2008 6:41 pm

Dee - If the ranking compilers emailed organisers an excel spreadsheet of all paddlers' contact details, would it upset you if the rule was ammended so that paddlers could have a choice whether they put their address/DOB on entry cards ?

Dee · Post by **Dee** » Sat Dec 06, 2008 7:27 pm

Katonas,

In theory I wouldn't object as long as the year of birth was on the cards (not just J16 etc, because paddlers get this wrong). However, this does presuppose that the ranking compilers have the information - running an event so early in the season means that there are always a number who haven't applied for or received their bibs. I don't know how to get round this.

I'm also not sure it solves your problem as the information may well be printed out and left lying around!

I do think that this is no where near the issue that you believe! I agree with seedy paddler that as an organiser my name and address are well publicised.

katonas · Post by **katonas** » Sat Dec 06, 2008 11:17 pm

Hopefully, it never will be a big issue.

Armageddon · Post by **Armageddon** » Sun Dec 07, 2008 7:26 pm

I think in this day and age and the issues surrounding identity fraud, lost government, bank and personal data that we do need to review the blatant display of addresses and DOB. All divisions , except div 4 require a full competitive BCU, SCA or WCA registration which requires to be filled out on the card so surely if there is some one who defaults then the organizer can use the relevant body to chase them down!! I would have thought that year of birth would have been sufficient with Membership number and if really necessary first line of address would have sufficed. Why not insist on payment with entry and address on the reverse of the cheque then if it bounces or is incorrect then you can chase it that way and the address does not need to be on the card?

PeterC · Post by **PeterC** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 12:05 am

I see no need for next of kin data to be added to the cards as has been suggested. We are very capable of finding this if we have basic identity and this requires three things name / address and one other which is normally DOB. Year of birth would do but is not ideal. From this we can gather important clinical information that we may need fairly rapidly.

There is also a suggestion that competitors should have details on their person. We would then need to create an industry checking them as they never forget things do they - e.g. bibs!!!

At the risk of creating a new issue perhaps cards could be two part, one with the bib number and results area and a second removable part also with bib number and all the other details - these could then simply be retained unless needed and destroyed immediately after the event.