Women - Canadian

Munchkin · Post by **Munchkin** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:15 am

This is neither a rant nor a rave but I couldn't think of another forum to put this in!

I was wondering what moves there are (if any) to try and get more woment into the top levels of both the C1 and the C2 (particularly now women's C1 seems to have become and international level event)?

I note that there are too few of us* to have our own division structure. I have only ever competed against one woman being Polly! So far this year 1 Div 1, 3 Div 2 and 8 Div 3's have competed so we will need to keep competing against the men but is there a need for:

1. A way of promoting the more capable women (woman v woman rather than v men) up the ranks quicker so that there are more capable women practicing/ competing on international level water?

2. Having some competition where all the C1 women are competing against each other at one time? The women's league works in some ways but who is to say that Heather (with reasonable points in Div 2) could not beat Jacquelyn (with fewer points in Div 1)?**

*I say us, being women, rather than me who is complely incapable of steering a C1!

** This is just an example and by no means a challenge! Could work for the other divisions too***...

*** Except where I am concerned as my points were a fluke!

c1champ · Post by **c1champ** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 1:00 pm

On the front page of the canoe slalom website there are 3 days when there are coaching weekends for females in c1!

Munchkin · Post by **Munchkin** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 1:05 pm

Indeed there is. Unfortunately I can only go to one as they are during the week and I have to work! Not sure how many people are signed up...

djberriman · Post by **djberriman** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 4:55 pm

A perfect example of where a non divisional league would operate better.

Perhaps the slalom committee could run it in this way to a) promote women's c1 and give you come competition and b) trial a non divisional structure in a limited manner.

Just a thought

Munchkin · Post by **Munchkin** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 5:04 pm

How would that work? Effectively make Women's C1 an open event at every event/ If so, how would you distinguish points between a P/1 and a 3/4 event?

They have tried to make that cut in C2 and in all honesty I am not sure that works. Last weekends Orton Mere slalom was much harder than the Bala 2/3 yet the C2's could only get a maximum of 500 points.

djberriman · Post by **djberriman** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 5:08 pm

I'm not totally sure how such systems work (but I know a man who does). I've heard of systems where you race against a fictitious paddler (Miss Average in this case) and get your points awarded based on your result compared to that paddler. I am sure there are many ways to do it and this might be an ideal situation in which to try things out (or even run it in parallel).

chauffeur · Post by **chauffeur** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 8:18 pm

It is difficult to progress up the divisions as women C1 and it would be good be see a system where the girls can compete together.
However Jacquelyn was not automatically placed in div one because she is prem K1, she came through div two early this season.
Jacquelyn is very keen for more girls to get involved with C1 as this can only improve the quality of the C1W paddling long term.
One thing that came across in La Seu is that it is not going to be an easy class to paddle and it will take girls ( from all countries) some guts to get on the big water and compete at an international level.
The C1W gold medal winner at La Seu is a top Czech senior international K1 paddler and she found the course a challenge; nerves weren't readily apparent from her (unlike Jacquelyn and the US girls), and she was aware of the lines needed, but even she sometimes found the lines and moves hard to achieve.
The C1W will need training, like the days being offered, and more. Jacquelyn went out as part of the trial event and she had no coaching what so ever during the training week or the race - I'm was a sailor not a paddler!
Certainly a system where points are allocated according to percentage time against top C1M paddlers could be a possibility, rather like the C2 system; but at the moment you would be guessing the percentage as there is not enough C1W paddling to be able to fix a realistic points system. In the mean time racing against the C1M will mean the girls have to produce good results to get their points.

PS: I was 'chauffeur' for this trip with a hire car that got a well gaffer taped up rear window where a lorry tried to join are company one bright sunny morning!

Munchkin · Post by **Munchkin** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:06 pm

chauffeur wrote:However Jacquelyn was not automatically placed in div one because she is prem K1, she came through div two early this season.

Sorry, if my post led you to think that was what I was getting at it is not at all. She and Kate have made their way up through the ranks and deserve to be where they are. I was more aiming at how we can get other girls to follow suit.I was more trying to point out that the girls rarely meet each other in C1 as they move up through the C1 ranks so it would be good to have a way of comparing ourselves. I have only competed against Polly and wonder how I would fare (badly I am guessing!) against the other Div 3 and Div 2 girls. If I get to Div 2 I would wonder how far off I am from the Div 1 girls. Does that make sense? As you say, the girls need the confidence on bigger water before they can compete at an international level. They can't all be rushed to the big water so a happy medium needs to be found.

Munchkin · Post by **Munchkin** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:08 pm

Ps, just goes to show that gaffa tape really can be used for anything!

chauffeur · Post by **chauffeur** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:18 pm

Jacquelyn is very keen to encourage as many girls as possible to C1, hopefully seeing her in the race last week will encourage other girls to have a go.
The major decision re the future of C1W at international level will be taken by the ICF, I believe later this month; that will no doubt determine what funding becomes available for training girls.
Any places in the future, for example the Worlds next year, will no doubt have to include selection race at HPP to get the challenge of water, otherwise it will be a shock to the system for those going out to La Seu or other European waters.
In the meantime, rather like K1, the best way to work up the water with the current system is to go and judge at events higher then you are currently ranked. We always encouraged both of ours to adopt this policy.

Or, you could go and train on the Tryweryn for free now!

ElaineF · Post by **ElaineF** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:07 pm

Firstly congratulations to Jacquie on her result in Spain and earlier promotion to Div 1, well done

Interestingly there has been one ranking slalom this year which only had C1W competitors, the Sunday Div 2 at Shepperton. There both Mallory and Eloise's results were ahead of some of the Div 1 competitors on the day. The event was however inquorate, pointing to a wider issue with progression within the current C1 ranking system regardless of gender, when events have such low numbers it seems as much a lottery as to who else turns up as to how well you paddle which I know has been a source of frustration to Mal over recent seasons. Maybe a points system such as C2 would provide more motivation and increase attendance? This too would also reduce premature promotion from larger fields of less experienced paddlers..

Mal's now firmly a K1L who enjoys the occasional challenge of C1 on the larger Div 2 courses when time, the calendar and costs allow - sadly all reasons why it doesn't look likely she'll race C1 again before next season.

Geebs · Post by **Geebs** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:43 pm

Again congratulations to Jacquie on her recent triumph in Spain and earlier promotion to Div 1.

I am sure that Jacquie would not have been alone if the calendar made sense for this year, with very few double events and long distances to travel plus low entries for C1, it is difficult to get quortate events and it seems if you pick your events you will get promotion due to the number of competitors and the points available?

It is about time that C1 was more promoted especially for the 'female' paddlers as we do have some good potential paddlers that are getting put off by the lack of double events and the poor entries.

IMHO C1 has a lot to offer but unless we can get some more interest we are on a downhill slope!

Graeme

Geebs · Post by **Geebs** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 1:06 am

We now have three ladies in Div 1 C1, Kate Kent being the first, followed by Jacquelyn Shaw and after two clear wins at Cardington last weekend Heather Slater, surely this must be a record of THREE ladies in C1 Div1 in the UK?

The recent C1 training days for the ladies were a great success and thanks to all that offered their expertise and help at no cost to the paddlers.

Girl Power is here be ready for it, they deserve the chance to be in Team GB and have the support for the coming European's in the next few years and Olympic challenge in 2012.

Cheers

Graeme

chauffeur · Post by **chauffeur** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 8:09 am

Well done to Heather. It is great to see the C1W class growing in Div 1; shows success after the training days.
Lets hope, if she has the time to fit in the races, we see Eloise making it 4 C1W in Div 1 by the end of the season.

Anne · Post by **Anne** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 9:25 am

This issue was discussed at the last committee Meerting (minutes out soon) and will be a motion at the ACM to set up a ranking & promotional system for C1W. It is that chicken and egg situation - you need more WC1 paddlers but without their own ranking system what encouragement do thae have to give it a try. So we are taking the initiative for next year. Watch this space - CP is doing some thinking on this one!