Annual Consultative Meeting and back to racing discussion

Discuss past and future events
djberriman
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Re: Annual Consultative Meeting and back to racing discussion

Post by djberriman » Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:45 am

All good points and I'm sure these can be covered off by the slalom committee simply issuing a statement via a committee meeting if required.

That said, who is going to object, I don't think there is actually a way to object to the way a race is run except to put a protest in, talk to the organiser and chief judge or after the event the slalom committee. I don't think you'd get very far with your objection.

I think paddlers will just be thankful for an event. Advertise in advance what will be done as far as possible.

I don't see the point of cameras, as results won't be posted until after the event, you don't then want to spend hours reviewing footage and on the phone to the judge who has the sheets because someone protested a touch. The cost is prohibitive, as is setting them up and having people to control them, if they break down do you then ignore all protests for the event? I think you just use a normal judge sat as before. If protests are a big issue may have to double up on judges (socially distanced) and go with the lower decision. At lower level events protests are rarely upheld. I guess the slalom committee has figures for protests lodged and upheld at every event.

You'll find most clubs have the same issue, their constitutions don't cope with Covid.

Good point for discussion at the ACM

Canadian Paddler
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Re: Annual Consultative Meeting and back to racing discussion

Post by Canadian Paddler » Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:06 am

The ACM Papers have been published and circulated to the clubs. The links are below, and they are also available via links on the CanoeSlalom UK website. Everyone is welcome, just email slalom.secretary@vol.britishcanoeing.org.uk and she will send you the Zoom log in details.

The end of the Agenda is a general discussion:
7 General Discussion
7.1 Return to racing
A draft guidance document will be shared at the meeting to form the basis of the discussion, with each of the following areas to be discussed in detail.
  • Priority of regulations
  • Race structure
  • Entries, refund and finance
  • Venues
  • Covid officer
  • Race rule

Be good to have a broad base for the discussion, See you there
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alan1nckc
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Re: Annual Consultative Meeting and back to racing discussion

Post by alan1nckc » Fri Nov 13, 2020 11:33 am

I see from the registration form that the number of votes depends on events run in the 2020 season. This is a bit unfair, as the only ones run were very early in the season. Should it not for fairness include 2019 season?

Dee
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Re: Annual Consultative Meeting and back to racing discussion

Post by Dee » Fri Nov 13, 2020 11:57 am

alan1nckc wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 11:33 am
I see from the registration form that the number of votes depends on events run in the 2020 season. This is a bit unfair, as the only ones run were very early in the season. Should it not for fairness include 2019 season?
It is what the rules state, to change it we would need a vote under the old rules to change to the new ones, so it all gets a bit complex. If you look at the motions for the ACM there are not exactly a lot! and what there is will probably be a very clear decision one way or t'other; we are half expecting not to need to actually count votes at all!
Kit Washer, Entry Clerk, Chauffeur, Reluctant Organiser, Online Entry Advocate .....
Anything I post under this user is my personal opinion; I am not posting as a member of the Slalom Committee!

alan1nckc
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Re: Annual Consultative Meeting and back to racing discussion

Post by alan1nckc » Sun Nov 15, 2020 12:50 pm

I will point out that I don't have personal or club axe to grind here - we would only get one extra vote if all of 2019 was used. Maybe a revision to the rule would be in order: something like "have run competitions during the last 10, not necessarily consecutive, months during which ranking competitions were able to be held".

Dee
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Re: Annual Consultative Meeting and back to racing discussion

Post by Dee » Sun Nov 15, 2020 2:47 pm

But that would need to have been a motion at the start of ACM, which would have to be voted on using the current rules. Assuming it passed we would then need to recalculate votes held by each club for the remainder of the ACM. And the recalculated votes would then only get used for voting in officials/committee members etc; and then 2, likely non-contentious, motions. The effort involved just doesn’t make any sense for a one off and is highly unlikely to have any impact on outcomes
Kit Washer, Entry Clerk, Chauffeur, Reluctant Organiser, Online Entry Advocate .....
Anything I post under this user is my personal opinion; I am not posting as a member of the Slalom Committee!

alan1nckc
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Re: Annual Consultative Meeting and back to racing discussion

Post by alan1nckc » Sun Nov 15, 2020 8:15 pm

As long as you're sure we won't be in the same position next year, or in the next pandemic, which it has been suggested, isn't as far away as the last one. I was thinking more of future-proofing the rules, rather than making an adjustment this year.

Canadian Paddler
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Re: Annual Consultative Meeting and back to racing discussion

Post by Canadian Paddler » Mon Nov 16, 2020 9:29 pm

Any such motion is a change to the terms of reference, so would need a 2/3rds majority and would be subject to BC Board of Directors approval. The committee did think about various options (including no votes for competitions this year).

The term of reference (page 205, 9.2) is specific in that it says
Each Registered club is allocated one vote for each ranking slalom it has arranged in the immediately preceding 12 months
As Dee says, with the elections and motions that are before the ACM it was decided to concentrate on getting back to slalom and not spend time trying to use two voting systems in this meeting. When we get to the 2021 ACM, then a motion can be put to vary the voting, if required, based on the situation then, and can be put by any club if they feel strongly enough.

The discussion after the meeting should be the part we concentrate on in my (not so) humble opinion
All spelling errors are intentional and are there to show new and improved ways of spelling old words. Grammatical errors are due to too many English classes/teachers.
Old. Fat. Slow. Bad tempered. And those are my good points

PeterC
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Re: Annual Consultative Meeting and back to racing discussion

Post by PeterC » Thu Nov 19, 2020 7:54 pm

If anyone wants to email me with questions that they would like answered in the discussion on restarting racing with COVID still around at the ACM then I will try and ensure I am up to speed to try and answer them.

Canadian Paddler
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Re: Annual Consultative Meeting and back to racing discussion

Post by Canadian Paddler » Thu Nov 26, 2020 9:25 am

This year's ACM will be held on Saturday 28 November 2020 via ZOOM.

Join Zoom Meeting>
https://us02web.zoom.us/j/87322504340?p ... ZVZTBTZz09
Meeting ID: 873 2250 4340   Passcode: 447972

There are three committee members whose terms are expiring this year: Karen Crowhurst (participation), Andy Neave (coaching) and Steve Linksted (strategy). There was an error on the original agenda as Karen and Steve have indicated their willingness to stand again, but Andy has made the decision not to stand. We will welcome any nominations for the committee when we meet on Saturday.
Please also note that, subject to Colin Woodgate being confirmed as treasurer, the role of Vice Chair will be vacant.

Reports etc are posted on canoeslalom.co.uk
All spelling errors are intentional and are there to show new and improved ways of spelling old words. Grammatical errors are due to too many English classes/teachers.
Old. Fat. Slow. Bad tempered. And those are my good points

harratts
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Re: Annual Consultative Meeting and back to racing discussion

Post by harratts » Sun Dec 13, 2020 8:55 am

Hi all,

Following discussions at the recent Canoe Slalom ACM (which I was unfortunately not able to listen in to) that took place on the 28th November, how draft is the 2021 draft calendar now?

As no notes from these discussions have been issued yet I was wondering what the general view was about when we may get back to being able to have Slalom races take place again.

Looking forward to seeing everyone again as soon as it is possible to do so.

Stay safe everyone.
Steve

JimW
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Re: Annual Consultative Meeting and back to racing discussion

Post by JimW » Mon Dec 14, 2020 1:04 am

I woz there, and as far as I recall:

Only 2 organisers have withdrawn races, and one of those was due to lack of organisers at the moment.
There were a few more that hadn't got RAs in on time and were being given an extra week to do that, I'm pretty sure they will have now.

The 'when' is impossible to define. Everyone has picked up on different bits of the current rules, but no-one knows what rules are going to be in force in a fortnight never mind the start of the season. Scotland and Wales are currently having some quite different restrictions to England so that could mess stuff up even more.

It is likely that we will be starting the season with some kind of tiers or level systems in place with different travel restrictions within and between tiers/levels, whether the rules for each tier stay the same as they are now or get modified more, no one knows. Organisers with races early in the season are already tracking their local rules to try and determine the kind of things that might be needed. We may end up in a situation where a race can go ahead because the venue is in a particular tier, but entries can only be accepted from people in certain tiers and not others.

Online entries is already pressing organisers to complete their race details for the published calendar (I'm still waiting for confirmation of something non-covid related before I can do mine), but entries will not be opening right away. Because everything is going to be in flux entries will open later, when each organiser has some hope of predicting the rules that are going to be in place. Some events might be cancelled 2 or 3 weeks before depending on viability under regulations/deposit conditions for venues etc.

Importantly, whilst it was not possible to change any slalom rules at the ACM (because it was effectively in the middle of a 2-year season), there was an overwhelmingly successful motion to allow the committee to relax rules on a race by race basis as necessary to allow some kind of racing to go ahead in compliance with whatever rules/laws are in place at the time.

My gut feeling is that things will change a lot throughout 2021, and we should probably expect early races to be run very differently than they were before with normality gradually returning throughout the year. I think it will be some time before we can all mingle socially at events, I hope to see you on the start line soon, but I think it will be a while longer before we can gather on the bank/car park/campsite.

Most importantly though, all the organisers, and all of the committee, are doing what they can to try and get racing back on as soon as possible, in some shape or form.

Dee
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Re: Annual Consultative Meeting and back to racing discussion

Post by Dee » Mon Dec 14, 2020 8:47 am

JimW wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 1:04 am
...
Online entries is already pressing organisers to complete their race details for the published calendar
...
Pretty much agree with everything said, but for clarity the race details at the stage are primarily for creating the calendar (for printing and for Canoeslalom.co.uk). Organisers have always been asked for details post acm, the only difference now is it is via an online system rather than by email.

I think everyone will know that the calendar is going to be subject to COVID enforced changes this year. Some organisers may look at charging enhanced fees but won’t be able to confirm until a bit closer to their race. So, whereas calendar normally shows all enhanced fees this won’t necessarily be the case this year. I suspect many organisers will need to email out some dos, don’ts, etc before the race and all information will be subject to change, but even if racing isn’t normal, hopefully it can still happen!
Kit Washer, Entry Clerk, Chauffeur, Reluctant Organiser, Online Entry Advocate .....
Anything I post under this user is my personal opinion; I am not posting as a member of the Slalom Committee!

JimW
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Re: Annual Consultative Meeting and back to racing discussion

Post by JimW » Mon Dec 14, 2020 11:31 pm

Dee wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 8:47 am
JimW wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 1:04 am
...
Online entries is already pressing organisers to complete their race details for the published calendar
...
Pretty much agree with everything said, but for clarity the race details at the stage are primarily for creating the calendar (for printing and for Canoeslalom.co.uk). Organisers have always been asked for details post acm, the only difference now is it is via an online system rather than by email.
Sorry, that was just my poor way of trying to say it with minimal words - bottom line is, the details are being collated ready to publish the calendar in the new year.

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