Serpents Tail cancelled

[ZA viking!]

In my opinion there might be a slight unfair advantage however, if you remember at the beginning of the year the river levels were very low and they had no advantage as no one had paddled on it that low, also if someone is offering to organise a race the opportunity should be taken. I don't see the point in disagreeing and stopping the whole event because there may be a slight advantage! From my understanding it seems like Tully is one of the only places that can guarantee water as other courses can be too expensive or need special access. This may be one of the reasons for having 2 of the selection races at Tully next year as the Junior Worlds are quite early next year!
Zac

[SilverSurfer]

Whilst the current post "glass half full" maybe singing the praises of how good slalom is in the UK, and what great venues we have,  the fact that we can not use these venues only undermines that view point.

What is wrong with venues such as Cardiff, Teesside, LV and HPP - all with guaranteed set water levels. Sorry, it comes down to cost, such that we end up having to run a double at GrandTully for junior selection, which will be a complete lottery when it comes to water levels. The smaller/lighter paddler will favour a low water level scraping over rocks, whilst the stronger/heavy paddle will favour a high water level. 

The outcome of the junior selection races not only determines who gets into the GB team but also acceptance on to training programmes and sponsorships.  It is a shame then that venues are not being used that paddlers can train at during the winter months in preparation.  

[Sven]

It is odd that when a race is proposed at Tully to porvide support for those Div 1 paddlers needing another race suddenly it is unfair and too hard to travel to etc

Out of the I think 17 div 1 races in the UK 4 are held in Grand Tully- run as 2 double weekends so those coming from down south dont normally have to travel more than twice - all the other Div 1 races (another 8 trips) in the UK which are also supported by Scottish paddlers, on average incur a round trip of between 700 and 1000 miles depending on where you live in Scotland - Scotland is a big place and many Scottish paddlers have a round trip of circa 500 miles to get to Tully and most dont train on Tully so I am having a hard time understanding the "unfair"

This was a genuine offer to help those folk who want / need another double div 1 race this season.

[Sven]

The outcome of the junior selection races not only determines who gets into the GB team but also acceptance on to training programmes and sponsorships. It is a shame then that venues are not being used that paddlers can train at during the winter months in preparation.

If you look at the stats - actually the advantage on selection day is relatively small. My understanding - which is not perfect is 2 selection races at Tully next year for Juniors is because the Junior Worlds are early in the year and normally there is a Junior selection races held - 1 in Wales 1 in Scotland and 1 in England - to be "fair".

Because of the timings - and the Welsh are at times at the mercy of the Environment agency it was agreed the Welsh leg be held at Tully - being similarish types of venue.

[BaldockBabe]

It is odd that when a race is proposed at Tully to porvide support for those Div 1 paddlers needing another race suddenly it is unfair and too hard to travel to etc

From my point of view moving the event from Serpents Tail to the Trywerwyn made absolute sense as those that had accomodation booked for Serpents Tail could still use that accomodation as the locations are very close. This goes for paddlers, volunteers and organisers. If the event was move to Tully many people would supper a "double whammy" on costs as they will have lost money for their original booking and will have a late booking price on a venue around Tully.

I think it was a very nice offer but the extreme difference in location makes it less feasible...

[Sven]

Baldockbabe - Yes I agree - but the same is also true for the majority of the SCOTS who had booked accommodation in Wales - they loose their deposit on accommodation - maybe - but would still have to book accommodation etc at Tully

I guess what I am trying to say is the perception about racing at Tully for many Scottish paddlers is flawed - they too have the same costs as many English paddlers have coming to Tully as I said Scotland is a big place

I suppose at the end of the day it depends how much you want to race?

[DavidDickson]

Having just returned from an 800 round trip to Llandysul this weekend and a 700 mile round trip to Nottingham last weekend, we would still be prepared to travel anywhere in the UK to attend this race. As active Scots paddlers we have not been to Tully since the August div1/2 race, our main focus has been on Teeside for the last few months.

The suggestion to race at tully was originally proposed by Richard Lee because the Welsh had looked at running the event at at various welsh locations but none were available. Tully seemed the best option because the Scottish champs are on the week before and most of the equipment and lines etc could be left in place for the following weekend.

[ZA viking!]

I dont understand what people have against having the race at GrandTully, if someone is willing to organising a race it should be accepted willingly, in terms of travelling the Scots have to travel miles to HPP, Lee Valley,Llandysul and would still have to travel a reasonable distance to Serpents tail. Along with the fact of advantages, i think there is mroe of an advantage having so many races at HPP over the year as the river levels are very similar throughout and people train there every day! There is a few races at tully but the river levels are different every time so its a completely different race! In the end the best paddler will win anyway so whats the fuss about! Just be happy someone is willing to do such a big favor of organising a race!

[Neil H]

Personally I think it is too late, and too close to the weekend to make such a large change in location. The number of events at a single location is also a concern.

Crikey, this subject was always going to provoke emotion. Like CP I think it's a nice thought but 11th hour and whether/or not it would have any benefit for the locals is irrelevant. If not everyone can alter their plans at short notice, it's not going to fly as running a race for those that could would leave out those that couldn't. I think we need to take on the chin the event is gone and that is the leveller as everyone, requiring promotion or not is in the same, um, boat.

I totally emphasise re the comments on travelling, it's the same for all I guess, an accident of geography

Whilst the current post "glass half full" maybe singing the praises of how good slalom is in the UK, and what great venues we have, the fact that we can not use these venues only undermines that view point.

What is wrong with venues such as Cardiff, Teesside, LV and HPP - all with guaranteed set water levels. Sorry, it comes down to cost, such that we end up having to run a double at GrandTully for junior selection, which will be a complete lottery when it comes to water levels. The smaller/lighter paddler will favour a low water level scraping over rocks, whilst the stronger/heavy paddle will favour a high water level.

The outcome of the junior selection races not only determines who gets into the GB team but also acceptance on to training programmes and sponsorships. It is a shame then that venues are not being used that paddlers can train at during the winter months in preparation.

Ahh water levels, a lottery for sure. I would say there should be a balance of geographical races, north, south, east or west, I don't think any one region should have a bias of races, water levels should be accepted for what they are and not affect whether races are held at venues again as we would have little left.

I can see that we should celebrate the nice new venues but to ignore the fact that they are not viable because of cost is sticking on rose coloured glasses

I agree with SilverSurfer re his closing comments on junior selection.

I note Serpents is on proposed calendar for next year???
over and out

[Flyhigh3]

An event, to genuinely replace an event that couldn't run, for paddlers, by volunteers...when so few come forward to run events ....yet so much arguing .....was this a rant and rave post and I missed it?

[John Dickinson]

A shame for us to miss the best race of the year at the Serpents Tail, thanks to all the people who made efforts to get the race put on elsewhere - I would have walked to Tully given the chance, or I would have liked to seen a Town Falls or Clywedog race, but as things turn out we don't have to worry... the replacement race is already sorted !

The British open at Lee Valley has gone from Div 1 invitation to Div1 paddle up to make it financially viable, so give the bibs back for the day and let's race for points ! I'm sure other div 1's would welcome one more race and help judge if needed.

Not much changes, we just get points for the race - what does anybody else think ??

[Canadian Paddler]

The British Open as a Premier has always been open to paddle up, so no change there.

The issue is that if the British Open is to be a division 1 race, with ranking points then it has to be run as such, with practice runs. That greater pumping time increases the costs considerably and probably makes the event not viable. Cant run without practice as there is a specific rule saying that it must be there, and the committee can't flout specific rules like that. Unless we increase the costs for a division one entry..... Probably not welcome!

Some phrase about rock and hard place comes to mind.