Tryweryn June 1/2 change of programme

[richardlee]

Tryweryn Premier / Division 1 slalom June 1 /2
Change to published programme
As the Environment Agency cannot guarantee the length of water releases on the river Tryweryn due to work downstream and limits in the lower lake to hold water, Canoe Wales slalom committee and BCU slalom committee have agreed a change to the published programme for the Premier slalom at Canolfan Tryweryn, June 1/2nd. As it is not a guaranteed release, paddlers should ring the water information line – 01678 520826 - before travelling
The division one slalom will run as advertised, with one race on Saturday and one on Sunday (on different courses). It is likely there will be no open practice opportunities, although water time exists on other sections of the river.
The Premier slalom will now be a 2 run race, with K1Men & C2 racing on Saturday (on one course to allow quorate comparisons) and K1Women, C1 Men and C1Women racing on Sunday (on a different course).There will be no semifinals / finals. Paddlers would be able to race in officials events on the alternate days. The Pan Celtic race will be calculated across the two days.

In this way we hope that we maximise the possibilities of delivering the divisional slaloms within a limited time. We apologise for any inconvenience caused and hope that early notice will allow paddlers to book / change any necessary accommodation.

Draft programme
Saturday 8.15 Practice (includes demos); 10.00 Division 1 1st run; 11.50 Premier, K1 men/C2 1st run; 1.00 pm Division 1 2nd run; 2.50 pm Premier K1 men/C2 2nd run; 3.45 pm, officials runs; 4.30 pm water off

Sunday 8.15 Practice (includes demos); 10.00 Division 1 1st run; 11.50 Premier, K1W, C1M, C1W 1st run 1.00 pm Division 1 2nd runs; 2.50pm Premier, K1W, C1M, C1W 2nd runs; 3.45 pm, officials runs; 4.30 pm water off

Should you require any changes to entry, please email me Richard.lee65@btinternet.com

Many thanks, Richard Lee, on behalf of Canoe Wales slalom committee

[Jasper]

Hi Richard.

Just a thought. As the C2's are a combined Prem. / Div. 1 standard would it not be possible for them to compete on both days?

On the Prem. race day they would compete for a maximum of 1000 points but on the Div. 1 race day a maximum of only 500 points would be available to them. You would need to stipulate which day was which.

Sorry if you have already planned for this to happen in your new timetable arrangements but could you let me know if I have understood the situation incorrectly?

Cheers,
Jasper

[richardlee]

Hi Jasper

The original application provided for one race in C1W and C2, run alongside the Premier as a P/1 class.

In running the event I am looking to protect the original application (ie 1 x Premier and 2 x Division one) in the face of limited water, rather than providing a new opportunity, and although you make a good point, it would effectively mean a new race for this class, over and above the original application. It is going to be tight anyway, and I need to prioritise keeping all the items in the air rather than putting another one into the mix!

For information, the release at Bala this weekend is Saturday only, 9 - 6.30 pm. I understand this is being limited to reserve water down the line for this event and subsequent weekends, so it gives an idea of ow Environment Agency are attempting to protect the release on the 1/2 June. My understanding is that a schedule of 8 - 4.00 pm over two days has greater potential to be delivered - hence the decisions made to date.

Additionally, I have one C2 entry at the moment and I wish to ensure their ability to race alongside the K1Men and maximise the chance of a 1000 point race. I have been able to move the C1W alongside the K1W, as 9 C1W have already entered for the P/1, therefore a 1000 point race is possible.

Best regards

Richard Lee

[Jasper]

Hi Richard.

I suspect that the C2 entry you have already received may be ours!

In which case we have sent two entry cards and payment for a double day Prem. / Div. 1 event.

Are you now saying that we can only paddle on one day?

Cheers,
Jasper

[richardlee]

Hi Jasper

Yes, Premier is a 2 run race, with K1Men and C2 on Saturday. C2s being run alongside K1Men to ensure that a comparative result can be taken if there is no quorum. The K1W, C1M and C1W (P/1) will be run on the Sunday on a different course. There are no semi finals / finals in order to ensure that the race can be run as a double division one / Premier, as applied for. Given that the application was for P/1 C1W and P/1 C2 there will only be a single P/1 event in these classes (1000 points available to the winners). Premier paddlers can enter the officials event on the day they are not paddling in a ranking event.

Thanks

Richard Lee

[richardlee]

Jasper,

I will check through entries tomorrow - if you have paid for a double as the event at P/1 was scheduled as a Qualification / Semi Final / Final race, we will refund the difference, which will be noted on the start list as an iou.

Regards

Richard Lee.

[Jasper]

OK Richard.

Thanks for your continued explanation.

I now understand that for the two combined Prem. / Div. 1 classes of C2 and C1 Women that this scheduled Double day event weekend has now (due to circumstances) been changed into a Single day competition event.

However if you compete in Div. 1 as a K1 Man, K1 Woman or C1 Man that this remains as a Double day event.

Hardly seems fair though.
Jasper

[richardlee]

Hi Jasper

The P/1 C2 and C1W classes were only ever scheduled as a single 1000 point event over this weekend, rather than two events. As organisers, we have not reduced the available events for these classes over this weekend, we have reduced the Premier event to a 2 run format, due to a likely change in the water release schedule, that precludes us from running the event as originally planned. As stated previously I am looking to protect the events that we applied for within the calendar.

It is worth considering across the year, there are 25 events (11 Premier events and 14 division one) available to P/1 C1W and C2 classes in a season - compared with 11 in Premier or 18 events in Division one for the other classes.

Additionally, to double up the P/1 classes event on this weekend within a division one format could put another 40 minutes into the programme on the other day, with breaks. Again, I am looking to protect the integrity of the races and fairness of racing by ensuring that we run an event of a good standard within a given water release schedule.

.....and finally - the event is being run on a dam released river, controlled by the Environment Agency ( as always, contact the water information line - 01678 520826 - before travelling). It could rain so much in the next three weeks that the water is on 24 hours a day and we could have easily accommodated the event as previously scheduled or it could rain intermittently (but at a level that does not allow the EA to provide the water when we need it) and we might lose the water release and not be able to run the event at all. Fundamentally, we (and I am sure other organisers at other events) are looking to run good events within the remit of the BCU slalom committee, but making an early call, in this case, allows paddlers to make reasonable plans to provide the framework for fair racing.

Given the situation this year -the application submitted to BCU slalom committee for next year's comparable event is a double division one, with no Premier event on this weekend.


Regards

Richard Lee

[boatmum]

Hi Richard

I would like to just say many thanks for making sensible changes to this event's arrangements given the challenges imposed by external agencies.

Looking forward to the weekend

Cheers

[Jasper]

Yes but if you did not Qualify for the Semi-finals / Finals after the first day of Prem racing as a C1 Lady or C2 Crew then you could have taken part in the Div. 1 race scheduled for the Sunday. Hence our double card and double fee paid entry.

Perhaps I have not explained where I am coming from clearly but I am sure that a face to face discussion at the event will be much clearer.

See you there and looking forward to it.
Jasper

[BaldockBabe]

Hi Jasper,

No you couldn't have. This was something that was discussed at an ACM about 3 years ago as the issue came up for the C1W at the McConkey which is held in September.

It was decided that if you were in a P/1 event held in an international format (which is what the Tryweryn event was planned as and the McConkey is) and you failed to reach the semis and finals you could not then enter the Div 1 on the semis/ finals day.

The arguement raised at the ACM is that you would then be able to get two sets of points whereas the other Prem categories could only get 1 set of points which was considered unfair. It also meant that someone who had not qualified for the Semi's/ Finals could end up with more points on Semi's/ Finals day than someone who had qualified because they were getting their points from the Div 1 event.

M

[Jasper]

Ah thanks Michelle.

Happy to accept the decision now if I was planning to do something that was against the rules. Someone else has obviously thought that it would be possible before me and what you say makes sense as we DO usually gain more ranking points when we compete in Div. 1 races rather than Prem. races!!!!

Would you happen to know where I can find your explanation written down though as I have looked through the slalom year book and cannot find any reference to it anywhere?

Cheers,
Jasper

[BaldockBabe]

No, sorry. I just remember it being discusses at the ACM. Must have been at least 3 years ago as I have managed to avoid the last two....

[Canadian Paddler]

I believe it was part of the discussion of motion 6.5 in 2009. It is not in the minutes, as these only record the motions passed, not the debate.

The argument was:
Say we have 10 boats in the heats of the premier, with five going on to the semi final. Boats finish A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, I , J. Boats A-E go on to the semi final and final, and (amazingly) finish in the same order. Points are therefore A 1000, B 900, C 800, D 700, E 600, F 500, G 400, H 300, I 200, J 100.

But boats F-J entered the div 1 on the second day, and again finished in the same order, and got additional points: F 500, G 400, H 300, I 200, J 100.

So from the weekend, for paddling the same course, on the same days, the points are A 1000, B 900, C 800, D 700, E 600, F 1000, G 800, H 600, I 400, J 200.

It does not seem right that crews A and F get the same points more than any other crew.

So when you enter paddle in a dual division class (C2/C1W), if you enter the championship event, you are not also allowed to enter the following day in the lower division event. This is a working practice rather than a written law, but (as above) is intended to ensure fairness.

[Jasper]

Thanks Colin,

That all makes sense but if it is not written down anywhere .......

Are competitors in duel classes where competitions are scheduled to run in this format allowed to enter the lower Div. race on both days?

They would only be able to gain 500 points from each day but overall may end up with more than coming last in the higher Prem. division event.

Jasper