Does English Slalom need an identity?

The place to discuss slalom development issues specific to England
Mark Shaw
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Post by Mark Shaw » Sun Jul 06, 2008 4:05 pm

A number of people have commented recently that English Slalom lacks identity - something tangible that others can recognise English Slalom paddlers by.

One proposal I have heard is to make use of the Canoe England logo on helmets, slalom boats or specialist clothing -

Image

There would obviously be a cost associated with producing stickers, etc. which we would not be able to offset from say advertising, as this probably wouldn't be allowed in association with the logo.

I could get some example costs if enough people think this is worth pursuing further.

What do others think?
The above is the personal opinion of Mark Shaw and does not reflect the views of either the BCU or England Slalom Committees.

Canadian Paddler
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Post by Canadian Paddler » Mon Jul 07, 2008 8:27 am

If we are trying to give English Canoeing an identity, I would have thought we should move away from the BCU paddler. I had to look twice at the image to realsise it said Canoe England, a quick glance would have left me thinking BCU. The CANI, SCA and WCA images do not include the BCU logo, and have a seperate identity.

So the point of this,
- yes I think that if English slalom is to develop seperate from the BCU, it needs its own idfentity, and differentiation. Might help with volunteers understanding what and why we have another committee.
- It would be good to have a logo to promote and identity for English Slalom, but that the CanoeEngland logo will not help this, it is a BCU logo. :(
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Ken Trollope
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Post by Ken Trollope » Mon Jul 07, 2008 10:08 am

England already has a identity which you have already used, see Nicks web page. It is the English Red Rose.

We also fly the flag of St. George with pride.
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Mark Shaw
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Post by Mark Shaw » Mon Jul 07, 2008 2:21 pm

The BCU Slalom Committee quite rightly has a UK wide focus with representation from all the home nations (apart from NI?). English Slalom is therefore potentially missing out on additional investment in the sport because there is no constituted group currently speaking just on behalf of the English slalom clubs. Sport England is about to agree the funding for all English sports for the next four years and so now is the time to raise the visibility of Canoe Slalom in England ahead of the 2012 London Games.

The logo is Canoe England's and so we probably should be directing our concerns about their choice of logo to them. I've no problem with using something different but it needs to be something that is a little less tarnished than the Flag of St George (think football hooligan) and evokes something more purposeful than just a red rose. What about reworking the central TeamGB logo for the Beijing Olympics using just red and white for the lion - and with the sting in the tail being a red rose?

Image

Anyone got any computer graphics skills?
The above is the personal opinion of Mark Shaw and does not reflect the views of either the BCU or England Slalom Committees.

John Sturgess
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Post by John Sturgess » Mon Jul 07, 2008 5:22 pm

I am reluctant to surrender the Cross of St George to the hooligans - and of course Mark may have a secret agenda with the Red Rose (think Wars of the Roses)

The sadly-deceased ECST used to use the Cross of St George, and I don't see any problem with reviving it

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Post by Canadian Paddler » Mon Jul 07, 2008 5:44 pm

Team GB logo = GB sorry to prattle on negatively, without +ve suggestion, but we want England, not GB.

If we are not to use the recognisable cross of St Geaorge, what other england specific things are there? John Bull? (JS could model that), World Cup Willy (if you can remember him)? three lions? The lion and the Unicorn, or if you want something 'English' known throughout the world . . Manchester United. :D

Seriously, is there any one out there who can come up with an England Slalom design, even if we have canoe england on headed paper (like slalom committee has a logo, with BCU on the paper)? There must be someone with some design skills out there? a graphics student? and Art Student? PLEASE help, as MArk says we are under represented/funded and need an identity
All spelling errors are intentional and are there to show new and improved ways of spelling old words. Grammatical errors are due to too many English classes/teachers.
Old. Fat. Slow. Bad tempered. And those are my good points

Dave Royle
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Post by Dave Royle » Mon Jul 07, 2008 6:42 pm

St George Cross works for me and we don't have to spend millions on consultants to come up with it. Just two thick red lines on a white background. Easily recogniseable too.

Mark. We use helmet stickers at work. I'll see if I can get a price.

Mark Shaw
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Post by Mark Shaw » Mon Jul 07, 2008 6:58 pm

No secret agenda really - just being deliberately provocative to get a positive response from the majority (or the few that actively use this forum) that the Cross of St George was still the preferred option.

It will certainly be the cheapest to reproduce I would expect.

Thanks Dave - an idea on cost would be great. Are these helmet stickers fairly water proof and used to being bashed, scraped and generally abused?
The above is the personal opinion of Mark Shaw and does not reflect the views of either the BCU or England Slalom Committees.

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* Naomi *
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Post by * Naomi * » Wed Jul 09, 2008 3:51 pm

my helmet still has an st georges cross sticker from the ECST days... put on there from when i was younger and proud to have got onto the england squad.
used to be a fair few scottish and welsh who used to wear their flags on their helmets, not sure how many do now as havnt paddled for a while.
stickers i bought years ago i remember being quite cheap and you got a pack of them in many different sizes to stick on your boat too.

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* Naomi *
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Post by * Naomi * » Wed Jul 09, 2008 3:54 pm

just seen you asking about how waterproof etc, ive had my helmet for about 9 years, and its spent many occasions under water and bashed about on rocks and is still going strong. not sure who would know where these were done though.

Mark Shaw
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Post by Mark Shaw » Tue Jul 15, 2008 8:53 pm

What do people think to the following idea?

Image
The above is the personal opinion of Mark Shaw and does not reflect the views of either the BCU or England Slalom Committees.

Nicky
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Post by Nicky » Tue Jul 15, 2008 11:32 pm

Sorry to sound negative, but I don't like it much!

I can't come up ith anything better, so maybe shouldn't criticise, but I'm not too keen!

Nicky

Munchkin
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Post by Munchkin » Wed Jul 16, 2008 10:23 am

I have to admit that I am rubbish with these things but the design Mark has come up with does not make me think of canoeing or slalom and I think it needs to do one of those things...

Canadian Paddler
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Post by Canadian Paddler » Wed Jul 16, 2008 11:59 am

I have almost no design skills, but how about:
Image
Or is there a design person out there who could help?
All spelling errors are intentional and are there to show new and improved ways of spelling old words. Grammatical errors are due to too many English classes/teachers.
Old. Fat. Slow. Bad tempered. And those are my good points

Dee
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Post by Dee » Thu Jul 17, 2008 5:08 pm

Hi CP

A think thats rather good - simple, clear and unambiguous, but then I have no design skills either:-D

Not sure about the green dotted lines though (took me a fair time to twig that they were gates). Perhaps we could just put Canoe and Kayak in opposite quadrants

Odd but I can't see Mark's version
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