6.1 Veterans Trophies

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Canadian Paddler
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6.1 Veterans Trophies

Post by Canadian Paddler » Wed Nov 06, 2019 12:20 pm

We have two veterans’ trophies from the time when there were two veterans’ divisions. Last year we agreed a single division, with a result that only one of the two prizes could be awarded. This motion seeks to clarify the point of the trophies to allow overall performance and performance at Division 1 /Prem to be acknowledged. The split is thought to be in line with the original purpose of the trophies................................................................................................................................. Page 70
2.6 …….
Veterans Points from Division 2/3 ................................................. The Alan Harwood Trophy
Points from Prem/Div 1 ..............................................................................
The Rasdex Trophy
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djberriman
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Re: 6.1 Veterans Trophies

Post by djberriman » Thu Nov 07, 2019 2:04 pm

Can I suggest we add.

Where both trophies would be awarded to the same paddler, the Alan Harwood Trophy will be awarded to the Veteran ranked second (or words to that effect).

Nigel
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Re: 6.1 Veterans Trophies

Post by Nigel » Sun Nov 24, 2019 3:29 pm

Is it still quite feasible to allocate these as was to prem/1 and 2/3 ranked paddlers, I don't know of anyone just joining Vets, we have historically all come in from the ranks, a declaration at sign up and your set to go.
Just a thought, but happy paddling whatever.

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Re: 6.1 Veterans Trophies

Post by Canadian Paddler » Mon Dec 02, 2019 12:09 pm

PERSONNAL POSTING - NOT POSTING AS ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE COMMITTEE - Just as an interested person who could not make the meeting

So I was not at the meeting, but understand that this took a long time. I believe the timescale went:
  1. Motion amended to state one person cannot win both prizes
  2. Amendment to make the prizes only applicable to MK1 failed
  3. L o n g , l o n g discussion
  4. Motion Withdrawn
  5. Instruction to committee to come back with proposals that reflect gender and class equity
So one trophy to be awarded, the other to sit on a shelf for another year.

AND I am now confused. What is the committee being asked to do?

The wording talks about Veterans, non specific to gender or class. This was reinforced by action 2. The prizes are therefore awarded to the veterans with the highest points totals regardless of gender or class.

Access to the prizes: Each veterans result is compared to the corresponding divisional class, with the same maximum points available, so all have access - if they are fast enough.

I do not have the split for Prem/Div 1 and Divs 2/3 - I am sure that these can easily be obtained from Duncan, but do not want to bother him again just because I am confused. But looking just at the overall Vets trophy - awarded this year. The list for winners starts as:
1 Joel Scott/Proteus CC (MC1) - 4853
2 Jane Gibson/Strathallan CC (WK1) - 3036
3 Paul Mew/Windsor & District CC (MC1) - 2757
4 Joel Scott/Proteus CC (MK1) - 2557
5 Chris Wilde/Frome CC (MK1) - 2500

So in the top 5 finishers we have both genders and both classes. OK only 4 people but Joel IS pretty good!

So the prizes are open to both canoe and kayak, and males and females can access the top positions. What more is the committee supposed to do?

You COULD argue that the points are not fair - after all, being 10% off the divisional winner has a bigger impact on kayak than on the other events. But is that what the meeting meant? And that is not to do with the logic of awarding prizes, but the rules relating to ranking overall. There was a separate discussion on vets points, but I have not heard anyone complaining that MK1 is disadvantaged.

HELP can someone explain why the proposals did not match gender and class equity and how this can be overcome, I can't see it.

Puzzled of Peterborough
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JBS
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Re: 6.1 Veterans Trophies

Post by JBS » Mon Dec 02, 2019 12:23 pm

I was there!
Some of the floor felt that the trophies should only be awarded to K1M others (myself included) felt that they should be open to the highest points regardless of class or gender.
As it was taking a while to sort out it was suggested to withdraw it and come back with a clearly worded motion next year to that effect.
It all seemed a bit hyperthetical as I didn't get a K1 trophy anyway....unless you count the C1 trophy that I got.....which has a kayak paddle :?

PeterC
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Re: 6.1 Veterans Trophies

Post by PeterC » Mon Dec 02, 2019 1:23 pm

I was there as well and trying to record an outcome. It became clear that there was no chance of achieving a reasonable consensus that all could accept in the meeting and although I did not minute it this way - the committee got dumped on with coming up with a plan that achieved acceptance. It was further complicated by the whole discussion of veterans points and ranking...

The committee met yesterday and I still got home after midnight without even finding the time to consider what we did with this.

Alison
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Re: 6.1 Veterans Trophies

Post by Alison » Mon Dec 02, 2019 1:39 pm

There was much discussion about who the intended participant of the trophies was for. For example is the Rasdex Trophy for the highest vet regardless of boat or gender or just the top K1M? Nobody actually knew some assumeda K1W or C1M could win others thought not.
The Alan Hardwood trophy was given to be awarded to the top div 2/3 K1M therefore it was felt that was the only reason it could be given.

It just needs someone to say these are the trophies and these are who they can be awarded to.

Heritage 110
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Re: 6.1 Veterans Trophies

Post by Heritage 110 » Mon Dec 30, 2019 7:37 pm

The Alan Harwood trophy is too nice to not be issued to someone..... please let it be looked after by somebody!

Dee
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Re: 6.1 Veterans Trophies

Post by Dee » Mon Dec 30, 2019 7:54 pm

Alison wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 1:39 pm
It just needs someone to say these are the trophies and these are who they can be awarded to.
I think that is what the motion attempted to do, but there seemed to be as many opinions as people in the room :lol:
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Heritage 110
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Re: 6.1 Veterans Trophies

Post by Heritage 110 » Mon Dec 30, 2019 8:37 pm

Even my non slalom loving wife loved this piece of lovely wood and allowed it to sit in our front room!! I stopped drinking ale to prize it out of Terry's hands!!

Terryg
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Re: 6.1 Veterans Trophies

Post by Terryg » Mon Dec 30, 2019 9:07 pm

:D

davieq
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Re: 6.1 Veterans Trophies

Post by davieq » Tue Dec 31, 2019 8:10 am

I agree, it's a beautiful trophy, I had the pleasure of looking after it for a year before giving it back to Terry. 😀😀

rose
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Re: 6.1 Veterans Trophies

Post by rose » Sun Jan 26, 2020 5:07 pm

I think it was previous for the highest rank 2/3 vet man; I think it makes sense to award to the highest vet K1M who has never paddled in Div 1 or Prem; and maybe look at providing a similar trophy for the women????
For example I have just been demoted to div 2, but I have previously paddled in div 1 and prem so if I was a man I would not be eligible even though my last ranking may show div 2; I think that is an easy solution and could still be awarded. So the paddler can still enter Vet at div 1 and prem level, but they have never been ranked in the division 1 or prem is eligible for the prize!!!!

Terryg
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Re: 6.1 Veterans Trophies

Post by Terryg » Sun Jan 26, 2020 7:42 pm

rose wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 5:07 pm
I think it was previous for the highest rank 2/3 vet man; I think it makes sense to award to the highest vet K1M who has never paddled in Div 1 or Prem; and maybe look at providing a similar trophy for the women????
For example I have just been demoted to div 2, but I have previously paddled in div 1 and prem so if I was a man I would not be eligible even though my last ranking may show div 2; I think that is an easy solution and could still be awarded. So the paddler can still enter Vet at div 1 and prem level, but they have never been ranked in the division 1 or prem is eligible for the prize!!!!
I like this, I think it is in the spirit of what the trophy was originally intended for.
Not a fan of awarding an existing trophy for something completely different, it confuses the history.

Steve Holmes
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Re: 6.1 Veterans Trophies

Post by Steve Holmes » Sun Jan 26, 2020 9:11 pm

I like that suggestion. We may as well give it to Joel for the unforeseen future!

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