Age Categories for the 2020/21 Racing Season

General slalom chatter...rant about the bad, rave about the good
DebCatty
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Jun 08, 2015 8:43 am

Age Categories for the 2020/21 Racing Season

Post by DebCatty » Wed Jul 22, 2020 8:23 am

Just wanting to get views on how we should manage the age categories for the 2020/21 season. The slalom committee is meeting next week and it would be good to get input before it is debated and a decision made.

Thoughts?

Deborah

Mark H
Posts: 35
Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2013 8:09 am

Re: Age Categories for the 2020/21 Racing Season

Post by Mark H » Wed Jul 22, 2020 11:37 am

Hi Deb,
What proposed changes are going to be discussed and why?
Cheers Mark

Dee
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Joined: Sun May 08, 2005 8:34 pm

Re: Age Categories for the 2020/21 Racing Season

Post by Dee » Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:11 pm

Normally Age categories are based on age at 1st Jan and normally a paddler stays in the same age category for the whole season, but normally a season is only one year.

We now have a season that spans two years, so should a paddler's age category reset in Jan and thus change mid-season or should it stay the same for the whole season (ie as it was in January this year) or is there another alternative.

This can impact prizes at both individual competitions and at the end of the year, not to mention categories for pan-celtic etc.

Changing mid season could mean some paddlers missing out on being U16 etc champion keeping existing age categories will mean this years J15s do not get to be in the oldest half of the age category

I'm sure there are other considerations - these are just my opinion
Kit Washer, Entry Clerk, Chauffeur, Reluctant Organiser, Online Entry Advocate .....
Anything I post under this user is my personal opinion; I am not posting as a member of the Slalom Committee!

Mark H
Posts: 35
Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2013 8:09 am

Re: Age Categories for the 2020/21 Racing Season

Post by Mark H » Wed Jul 22, 2020 8:31 pm

Thanks Dee,
It looks like making the season spanning over two years is going to throw up some issues that haven't been thought about.
Would it not be easier just to wright this season off and let the people who got promoted stay promoted and just start again next year. I am sure people would understand. HPPCC have applied for a double prem in March with the current seasons running over into two years these will be races 12 and 13 if they run. It just seems to me that things are being over complicated.

Down the greens up the Reds, it's a simple sport made difficult :D

But having said that, thank you to all of the volunteers that make the sport run and will get it back on track in the near future I hope.

Cheers Mark

Mark H
Posts: 35
Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2013 8:09 am

Re: Age Categories for the 2020/21 Racing Season

Post by Mark H » Wed Jul 22, 2020 8:51 pm

I have just seen from another post stream that part of my suggestion has already been debated.
People are right, let's look at getting the sport going again and try to attract some new paddlers, of all
ages. Let's look forward, HPPCC along with Stafford and Stone are looking at the possibility of an open at Nottingham.
First thoughts that this would be for Prem/1 for safety reasons. We are looking at September/October.
Would there be a demand for this from paddlers and volunteers?

I know all ranking races have been cancelled, but is the British Open still being run as an out and open at LV?

If so what numbers and who will be allowed to race?

Cheers Mark

Princi
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Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2016 12:17 pm

Re: Age Categories for the 2020/21 Racing Season

Post by Princi » Wed Jul 22, 2020 8:58 pm

I have to agree with Mark. The sport is over complicating things. When the decision was made to cancel all races the season should have been abandoned as null & void at that point. Whilst a handful of paddlers would have been disappointed it would have given a clean break as other sports have done. There are always going to be people that fall on the wrong side of a decision but the sport itself has to be the main priority.
Future committee/club meetings should be solely to discuss getting canoe slalom back up and running and not discussing age categories, point carry forwards etc.
Keep things simple and concentrate energies on getting a safe, competitive canoe slalom environment back on the calendar.

Dee
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Joined: Sun May 08, 2005 8:34 pm

Re: Age Categories for the 2020/21 Racing Season

Post by Dee » Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:01 pm

There is no easy approach;It is a question of working with the rules, or as close to them as possible. My thoughts are that there were three options
  • Cancel the season an pretend none of the races had taken place - this would mean cancelling any promotions achieved. I don’t think there is anything that allows to do this
  • Define the season as being based only on those races that had actually occurred. I think this would be within the rules, but would require all the end of season actions to kick in, eg championship prizes etc to be issued based on rankings from the few races that occurred, new bibs issued based on end of season ranking!! Etc
  • Define the season as 2years. Again this appears to work within the rules that we have.
Whichever route we go down there would be decisions to be taken and the two year season really did seem the least problematical and fairest approach. Yes, there are still bits to iron out, but there is time to do so. Some people won’t like it, others will. Hey ho!

As far as numbering prem races goes I don’t think there is anything in the rules so we could just restart numbering at 1 in March as usual

Re British Open. As far as I know, running this as a straight open hasn’t been ruled out, but it is too soon t say yet either way
Kit Washer, Entry Clerk, Chauffeur, Reluctant Organiser, Online Entry Advocate .....
Anything I post under this user is my personal opinion; I am not posting as a member of the Slalom Committee!

Princi
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Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2016 12:17 pm

Re: Age Categories for the 2020/21 Racing Season

Post by Princi » Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:28 am

Dee, your response highlights why a simple approach to the season should be taken. Individuals are trying to interpret the rules for a situation that isn’t covered, COVID-19. My daughters U15 football team were flying high in their league but due to the situation we all find ourselves in, the season was abandoned without promotion & demotion. Everyone has accepted this and are now working hard to resume full training & plan for the season ahead.
With domestic canoe slalom ranking events not due to start again until 2021 it is the perfect time to hit the reset button for the sport. Now is the time to focus discussions around bringing back a safe race environment, getting the fun back at a domestic level i.e. team events across all divisions, C class events to encourage C1 and perhaps get C2 boats visible again, make the junior championships a meaningful event rather than something that is tagged on the back of a ranking event, upgrade championship trophies etc. etc.
An example: as an organiser at HPP we had the Junior Championships at our race last year; trophies missing, damaged, not engraved and at the end many of the recipients not their to collect their prizes! This should be a standalone event with a real buzz about it!
These are the real issues that the slalom committee/club committees should be putting their energy and volunteered time into over the coming months! As Mark has already mentioned, HPP/S&S want to get an open on later this year so that, if nothing else, we can review what went well and what didn’t go so well around social distancing etc. so that we’re well prepared for 2021. I can’t emphasise enough the importance of keeping things simple within a sport that is run by volunteers!
As always, just my opinion!!

Dee
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Joined: Sun May 08, 2005 8:34 pm

Re: Age Categories for the 2020/21 Racing Season

Post by Dee » Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:57 am

Can we get back on topic and move on. Original question is still there
Kit Washer, Entry Clerk, Chauffeur, Reluctant Organiser, Online Entry Advocate .....
Anything I post under this user is my personal opinion; I am not posting as a member of the Slalom Committee!

Princi
Posts: 14
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2016 12:17 pm

Re: Age Categories for the 2020/21 Racing Season

Post by Princi » Thu Jul 23, 2020 11:37 am

Leave age categories as they are, make a u-turn and abandon the season as null & void (but allow promotions to stand so as not to disappoint those paddlers, as they’ve already been informed that’s what’s happening). Draw a line in the sand due to exceptional circumstances and turn all focus to supporting open events in 2020 and the safe return of the 2021 season. “Keep it simple”.

IDL
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:50 pm
Location: Hampshire

Re: Age Categories for the 2020/21 Racing Season

Post by IDL » Thu Jul 23, 2020 12:53 pm

I think we need to re-set the age categories to reflect ages in 2021.

The majority of racing will (hopefully) take place in 2021. Yes, some will miss out on prizes and championships, but a reset will be representative of their age when those events take place. If you won a junior prize at a race in 2020, that will of course still stand.

Mike Mitchell
Posts: 122
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2014 10:44 pm

Re: Age Categories for the 2020/21 Racing Season

Post by Mike Mitchell » Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:02 pm

As I see it the decision has already been made to run a Two season year 2020-2021. So point gained this year will stand in 2021.
So the paddlers that got off to a good start in 2020 keep there points and can build on there results in 2021.
This is by far the best and fairest decision. So lets not keep talking and debating it lets move on.

The Question is ages. For a J16 - J18 - J23 and J60 in there last year this is tough, especially if they had been hoping for team selection. But you can't put the clock back so next Jan1st they are to Old.
The only thing you could consider doing is to give a national J17 - J19 -J24 and J65 next year as a one off.

Can we start a different discussion on Timing and Judging equipment to make running the event safer for those in controls.

Mark H
Posts: 35
Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2013 8:09 am

Re: Age Categories for the 2020/21 Racing Season

Post by Mark H » Thu Jul 23, 2020 11:19 pm

Hi Mike,
I have tried to start an email conversation with several people around what is required for timing and judges.
More headsets needed( possibly) so they can be wiped down after each volunteer change. Do we ask regulars to buy their own head set or supply them to these volunteers. Judging spacing is easy on the course and possible up at race reception for lunch and refreshments. Extra space for timing can be created with extra longer cables or better spacing in the timing hut. Jury decisions could be done over headsets for the section judges and only visit the back up judge or wait for the sheets to come in at lunch or build in time after each class/ category to sort out the protest out and publish results ASAP.
This will cause reduced numbers for the race, which may be a thing of the future. I only have experience of running races at HPP with a great set of volunteers where I know we have the room and willingness to put up or hire in extra covered space. So I understand that different venues will have their own difficulties, but some of the same measures will still have to apply.

If people who know their area of expertise in timing and judging tell us organisers what they feel is necessary to get the sport back running to make them feel and be safe, I can assure you that we will do everything possible to make it happen. Keeping things simple is often the best way forward.

I do agree with Princi about a general look at the sport. This reset could/ should be used to do that.
We can look at age groups etc but the real and age old problem is how do we attract new paddlers to the sport.

IDL
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:50 pm
Location: Hampshire

Re: Age Categories for the 2020/21 Racing Season

Post by IDL » Fri Jul 24, 2020 9:37 am

Mike Mitchell wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:02 pm
As I see it the decision has already been made to run a Two season year 2020-2021. So point gained this year will stand in 2021.
So the paddlers that got off to a good start in 2020 keep there points and can build on there results in 2021.
This is by far the best and fairest decision. So lets not keep talking and debating it lets move on.

The Question is ages. For a J16 - J18 - J23 and J60 in there last year this is tough, especially if they had been hoping for team selection. But you can't put the clock back so next Jan1st they are to Old.
The only thing you could consider doing is to give a national J17 - J19 -J24 and J65 next year as a one off.

Can we start a different discussion on Timing and Judging equipment to make running the event safer for those in controls.
Love the J60 :D

Also the national J17 - J19 -J24 idea

paddlerparent
Posts: 84
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2015 3:52 pm

Re: Age Categories for the 2020/21 Racing Season

Post by paddlerparent » Fri Jul 24, 2020 10:27 am

Age for 2021 is simple same as its always been, we shouldn't be extending the the age range due to poor decision on extending the season by a year, if someone was last year U16 2020 they will be U18 in 2021 that should remain - what a mess we are now in with extending the season!!!

We seem to try to follow ICF for everything so if a reference is needed just follow ICF format & stop arguments


PS - Committee should also review of the decision on extending the season to reflect ICF seasons for 2020 & 2021

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